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Old 11-13-2003, 10:59 AM   #1
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Need 9x23 info

Does anyone have a 9x23 load for shooting the 147 grain JHP. I am shooting bowling pins and the 125 gr. Remington JHP, just zips on through the pins. I have been using 7.8 grs. of 3N37 and small rifle primers.


Is it possible to safely use .38 Super Loadings. I am not interested in any super fast loading, I just want the pins to move.

I have been using a .45 acp, but I can shoot the 9x23 so much faster.

Thanks for any help, Buddy
 
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Old 11-13-2003, 04:35 PM   #2
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check out the following thread:

http://www.pistolsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=13882

Dane (the guy that runs this site) is a wealth of 9x23 information. There is a link in the above post for his website, www.burnscustom.com ,that has some more good info and some load data on the cartridge. Just look to the left hand side and scroll down and follow the 'All About 9x23' link.

Im a novice reloader at best, so Im stocking up on the factory Winchester stuff when its for sale.
 
Old 11-14-2003, 06:11 PM   #3
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While Dane's site and the link are a good place to start, most people who shoot the 9x23 beyond 100K rounds come to realize that Dane's guidelines are simply a starting point and therefore have many exceptions. For example, I got a hell of a good 9x23 made by a smith that doesn't shoot that caliber. Just like I had some work done on a Sig by APG member who didn't carry a Sig

In terms of reload data, I've had great sucess by using hot 38 Super loads as a mid, or starting point for 9x23. There are an abundance of sources for 38 Super loadings.
 
Old 11-14-2003, 11:28 PM   #4
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BCP site's 9x23 info was intended as just that, a "starting point" for the folks new to 9x23. The info there is 8 and 9 years old currently. Some of the first powders like WAP are no longer available. One of the best current powders for 9x23 is hard to get, Vectan SP2.

When you can safely duplicate the factory loads with your own hand loads, in your own gun, then you'll know where to go next I suspect.

Quote:
I've had great success by using hot 38 Super loads as a mid, or starting point for 9x23
While John may suggest you use hot 38 loads as a start, no professional in the firearms business will because the pressures will be WAY past the max SAMMI specs for a 9x23. The 38 Super case is larger by volume than the 9x23 Winchester case. Stuffing a full load of ANY 38 Super data in a 9x23 Winchester case is not only foolish but dangerous, which is why I have not up dated my web site's loading data. Dangerous because the pressures will always be much higher in the 9x23 case. 9x23 Winchester has a smaller internal volume than the generic 38 Super SAMMI case. Smaller volume means higher pressures, powder charge and OAL being equal.

Max 38 Super SAMMI load specs are 36,500 PSI. Max SAMMI 9x23 Win is 55,000 PSI. 9x23 is 42% thicker at the web than 38 Super. The 9x23 is so strong the primer becomes the weak link. Unless of course you have actually fired your 1000 cases 100 times :roll: Then you would be well served looking for new brass.

The good thing for amateur reloaders who think that switching load data is acceptable, is the 9x23 win case was designed to proof at 50K CUP/55K PSI. So you might get away with such foolishness for awhile but a case letting go at 50K CUP gives "Superface" a whole new meaning.

A search on this web site will get you some safe 147 grain loads, posted by others here, doing 1400 fps.

If you want to shoot 9x23 I suggest a good progressive reloader, a number of reloading manuals and start off with mild 9x23 loads or light 38 super loads, checking for case bulging and primer flow as you go. A good digital mic and a chrono will tell you most everything you need to know past that if you have an experienced eye and aren't trying to duplicate a sonic cruiser.

I would still suggest having a 9x23 built by someone familiar with the caliber or buying a factory 9x23. From my own experience it is not the norm that a custom built 9x23 runs from the get-go if the number of conversations I have about 9x23 are any indication. There is a learning curve to build them to run right. Although I no longer do so, I have fixed 9x23s built by some of the better known smiths in the country. It appears that situation is better than a few years ago, but still not dated advice IMO when at least one still thinks using a 38 Super chamber is just fine for 9x23.

I am not looking for additional gun work when I make these comments. I am accepting very limited projects currently and none in 9x23. My comments here are only to give a better understanding on the 9x23 and it's limitations.

9x23 is an exceptional round but not in the form that Winchester produced it's loads and not in the off the shelf 9x23 production guns.

If Winchester, Springfield, Colt and even John B failed to understand the 9x23 it is easy to see why any number of good pistolsmiths and shooters have also.

Buddy,
To attempt an answer about your question bowling pins? The reason you can shoot the 9x23 faster is because the bullets are lighter and the recoil is flatter. If you want the bullets to stay in the pin and actually move them off the table I would suggest a heavier bullet. Add mass and diameter to the bullet and you can put more energy into the pin and move it off the table faster yet. Second Chance had a entire group of guys that would shoot heavy bullets for caliber and do very well. At least one of them on this list occasionally and might give you some additional inside info. Mr Higginbotham are you available? But I suspect a little slower shooting with a decent 45 load will always make a faster pin gun than any load in a 9x23.

regards,
Dane
 
Old 11-15-2003, 05:26 PM   #5
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Here's another idea. This link lists 9mm Largo loads, which some feel are a safe starting point for 9x23.

http://www.9mmlargo.com/cartridge/loads.htm.

When I went about triangulating on a 125gr fmj load I used this Largo info along with Vihta Vouri's load data for 38 super. Their min and max loads are around 7.1 and 7.7 grains of 3N37 (but check their manual). I haven't tried out the 9 grain load from Dane's site yet.

I think the same approach would work with 147 gr bullets, and other powders. But, if Dane or a component manufacturer haven't published it, you are literally on your own.

A while back someone posted some really really stout load data using Vectran SP2 in a 9x23, but I can't find it here now. Care to re-post it?

I've owned three 9x23s, and I guess I've been lucky. All of them have shot great (accurate and reliable) with a variety of loads and none of them have been touched by a smith that carries a 9x23 everyday. My current one was built by C.T. Brian and it is an absolute joy.
 
Old 11-15-2003, 07:32 PM   #6
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for my start loads..I look over a lot of 38 super and other 9x23 loads..I ususally back off a half a grain if I am looking at IPSC 38 super major loads and load in .2 increments and then make sure I have a chrono..

I use small rifle primers and WIN brass..so far I have had no problems and no issues with pressure..I haven;t tried the heavier bullets..sticking mostly with 115s and 124s...but I may need to try some for the heck of it..
 
Old 11-15-2003, 07:52 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eerw
for my start loads..I look over a lot of 38 super and other 9x23 loads..I ususally back off a half a grain if I am looking at IPSC 38 super major loads and load in .2 increments and then make sure I have a chrono..

I use small rifle primers and WIN brass..so far I have had no problems and no issues with pressure..I haven;t tried the heavier bullets..sticking mostly with 115s and 124s...but I may need to try some for the heck of it..
Makes sense to me, I think you use 231 if I'm not mistaken ??
I've used 38 Super and Largo information to get a starting point with this powder too. Worked great for me. But I guess I (we) just had luck on our side. Three people have personally emailed me (taoday) that they do the same thing though.
But were afraid to post it
 
Old 11-15-2003, 08:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John B
Makes sense to me, I think you use 231 if I'm not mistaken ??
Actually most of my load are with 3n37, WAP and WW540..I just got some 3n38 to try too..

A buddy of mine is liking 7625 and 4756, so I may be working loads up with those too..
 
Old 11-15-2003, 09:36 PM   #9
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Here's a link to a site with reloading information using some of those powders:

http://home.gci.net/~charlie/reload.htm
 
Old 11-16-2003, 04:42 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane Burns

While John may suggest you use hot 38 loads as a start, no professional in the firearms business will because the pressures will be WAY past the max SAMMI specs for a 9x23.
Dane
Dane several of your loads are way (15%+) above the the load data provided by reputable component manufacturers for 38 Super. Can I suggest you calm down a lttle bit?
 
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