pros and cons of a throate barrel

Frank Sottile · 07-18-2001, 03:46 PM

As I am moving along on my project SVI 9x23, I have come to that crossroad, "To be Bullish and go with a Bull Barrel" or to go with the Standard Bushing/Barrel setup. As this 9x23 will be for both carry and IPSC as well as IDPA, I can use a little feed back as to the Pros & Cons.

THANKS YOU ALL.

Randall_1611 · 07-18-2001, 04:11 PM

I put a Bar-sto in my G-29 and didn't notice the weight. It seems to me that it would depend on who's barrel that you are going to use, Kart, Bar-sto, Briley, et. than anything else. :smile:

In 1911's I prefer a barrel and bushing myself and really don't like the Officers set up but that's just me. Mike

DougC · 07-18-2001, 10:42 PM

I think that IDPA does not allow bull bbls, but I might be wrong. I like the fact that when my accuracy goes south on my bushing bbl, I can hard fit a new bushing and get most if not all of my accuracy back. With a bull bbl you get to buy and fit a new bbl. Kinda depends on what you want to do yourself. Enjoy your choice, DougC

Ironside · 07-18-2001, 11:56 PM

For distance 25 to 75 yds., fitted barrel
w/bushing. For rapid fire or combat courses,
bushingless or taper lock up barrel. For me Taper lockup seems to be more reliable than a super close fitted barrel and bushing setup................

Dr. Barry Greyson · 07-19-2001, 12:41 AM

Mr. Sottile,
Doug C is right. Look at it this way...if you need to replace a bull barrel they don't make oversize diameter barrels and most of the time the slide wears as well as the barrel...so, you get the distinct pleasure of replacing and refitting a $200.00 (plus) slide along with a new barrel. With a standard bushing it only costs approx. $15.00 or less for a new bushing plus your barrel, and if you make a mistake or don't get the fit you want you just refit another bushing and go on down the road. Since on this project I gather you are experimenting to learn "how to do it," I would opt for the traditional bushing... If you need to add weight under the barrel you can go with a Tungsten guide rod if it doesn't violate an "Association Rule"(IDPA)etc. Irv Stone at Bar Sto has been kind enough to make up custom bushings for me for some stock Paras as large as .713".
Good Luck :smile:!- Barry

Frank Sottile · 07-19-2001, 05:37 AM

Thank You All,
Wise words from the Doctor. If I do use the SVI Slide (and it looks like I will) then the smart way to go will be the Standard Bushing/Barrel Combo.

telackey · 07-27-2001, 10:58 AM

I think the worries about wearing out the fit are a bit overstated. You have to consider first that the wear area on a properly fitted bull barrel is significantly more than with a bushing, therefore there is less wear. Also, I have heard mentioned by Mr Burns, the bull barrel is more accurate generally as it delays unlocking until the bullet has entirely cleared the barrel (this also helps the shooter achieve the better accuracy), and lastly, as mentioned above, they are more reliable when tightly fitted than a bushing setup. All that said, I am not sure you will notice a difference, and bull barrels are illegal in IDPA, as are tungsten or otherwise enhanced guiderods.

gyp_c2 · 07-27-2001, 12:45 PM

Who has shot out a Bar-Sto lately? Just wondering...they must not be holdin' up so well? Or is it another Bull maker that their barrels shoot out so fast? How many rounds does it take to wear out a barrel like that anyway? 100000? I don't have a clue...I know I'll not be the one doin' it, but some of youse'must be shootin' that much to worry about shootin 'em out...Think I'll call 'em just to find out... :wink:

Jim Watson · 07-27-2001, 02:40 PM

Go ahead and have a 9x19 barrel fitted while you are at it (if your gunsmith thinks he can make them feed.) You will soon get tired of crawling around on the ground after 9x23 empties. Not to mention sorting them out from the Supers and TJs and MCM etc, etc.

Note that IDPA does not allow a long dust cover, either, so get the regular length frame if you plan to ever shoot at the state or national level where there would be an equipment check. Also you cannot shoot a 9xAnything at Major power factor in USPSA Limited, there is a .40 floor. That will be a big hindrance to decent placement.

gyp_c2 · 07-30-2001, 01:21 AM

I thought the IDPA ruling only applied to certain types of pistols with Bull barrels?!
...Is it the length or whether it's stock from the factory? I know I read somethin' just a couple months ago about it...just can't remember the "line -n the sand" that you can't cross...
:wink:

gyp_c2 · 07-30-2001, 01:21 AM

?

[ This Message was edited by: gyp_c2 on 2001-07-30 02:22 ]

Jim Watson · 07-30-2001, 08:31 AM

gyp, Frank,
The IDPA rule book-new green edition-says:
Enhanced Service Pistol, EXCLUDED Modifications... Heavy barrels, cone barrels, and/or barrel sleeves (factory or aftermarket.) Add on weights, weighted magazines, tungsten guide rods, extended dust covers.

telackey · 07-30-2001, 10:15 AM

I wonder if one could use a bull-barrel gun in IDPA if the barrel were fluted to match the standard weight of a barrel and bushing?

gyp_c2 · 07-31-2001, 10:24 AM

Huh...that mostly sucks I guess...seems like ya' oughta' be able to use a 4" since it's shorter and would be what a gazillion people carry anyway...Oh well...I guess dems da' rules... :wink:

Jim Watson · 07-31-2001, 11:21 AM

gyp,
Curiously enough, you can... if it is a .45ACP. Custom Defensive Pistol allows: "Factory installed cone style barrels are permitted on pistols with a barrel length of 4.2” or less."

telackey,
I don't think so.

gyp_c2 · 07-31-2001, 08:09 PM

ha...I'm not senile after all...Guess it's just for those with that kind of carry or back-up to be able to "play" too...Thanks Jim!

:wink:

_________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>g2<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

...no matter where ya' go

...there ya' are...

...BanZai from the 8th

[ This Message was edited by: gyp_c2 on 2001-07-31 21:09 ]

JiminCA · 08-03-2001, 12:55 PM

Yup, couldn't have the CQB compact disqualified now, could we?

gyp_c2 · 08-03-2001, 02:48 PM

HA...you DO see between the lines... :wink:

Bandit · 08-03-2001, 03:53 PM

It's my understanding that IDPA will only allow Bull or coned barrels on pistols that come from the factory in that configuration i.e. a SA Champion, Officer Model Etc Etc..

I could be wrong though..

Rick

gyp_c2 · 08-04-2001, 03:00 PM

That would fit the criteria of less than 5' like a government with an aftermarket barrel I guess...The Wilson is 4" I think, the Kimber Pro series...I guess quite a few...

Frank Sottile · 08-10-2001, 10:05 PM

As I have sent the Frame off to SVI to be fitted with the 5" Slide, Barrel and Bushing.

I want to THANK everyone for their feedback on this subject.

Also stop by Brian Enos' Fourm, as he has some really good info on IPSC and IDPA.

Frank

[ This Message was edited by: Frank Sottile on 2001-08-10 23:14 ]

07-30-2001, 01:21 AM	#11
gyp_c2 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Colorado or Louisiana or... Posts: 1,420	? <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: gyp_c2 on 2001-07-30 02:22 ]</font>

07-31-2001, 08:09 PM	#16
gyp_c2 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Colorado or Louisiana or... Posts: 1,420	ha...I'm not senile after all...Guess it's just for those with that kind of carry or back-up to be able to "play" too...Thanks Jim! :wink: _________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>g2<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ...no matter where ya' go ...there ya' are... ...BanZai from the 8th <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: gyp_c2 on 2001-07-31 21:09 ]</font>

08-10-2001, 10:05 PM	#21
Frank Sottile Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Wimberley, Texas Posts: 92	As I have sent the Frame off to SVI to be fitted with the 5" Slide, Barrel and Bushing. I want to THANK everyone for their feedback on this subject. Also stop by Brian Enos' Fourm, as he has some really good info on IPSC and IDPA. Frank <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Frank Sottile on 2001-08-10 23:14 ]</font>

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07-18-2001, 03:46 PM	#1
Frank Sottile Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Wimberley, Texas Posts: 92	As I am moving along on my project SVI 9x23, I have come to that crossroad, "To be Bullish and go with a Bull Barrel" or to go with the Standard Bushing/Barrel setup. As this 9x23 will be for both carry and IPSC as well as IDPA, I can use a little feed back as to the Pros & Cons. THANKS YOU ALL.

07-18-2001, 04:11 PM	#2
Randall_1611 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: WY Posts: 579	I put a Bar-sto in my G-29 and didn't notice the weight. It seems to me that it would depend on who's barrel that you are going to use, Kart, Bar-sto, Briley, et. than anything else. :smile: In 1911's I prefer a barrel and bushing myself and really don't like the Officers set up but that's just me. Mike

07-18-2001, 10:42 PM	#3
DougC Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: IOWA Posts: 89	I think that IDPA does not allow bull bbls, but I might be wrong. I like the fact that when my accuracy goes south on my bushing bbl, I can hard fit a new bushing and get most if not all of my accuracy back. With a bull bbl you get to buy and fit a new bbl. Kinda depends on what you want to do yourself. Enjoy your choice, DougC

07-18-2001, 11:56 PM	#4
Ironside Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Mike B. Posts: 32	For distance 25 to 75 yds., fitted barrel w/bushing. For rapid fire or combat courses, bushingless or taper lock up barrel. For me Taper lockup seems to be more reliable than a super close fitted barrel and bushing setup................

07-19-2001, 12:41 AM	#5
Dr. Barry Greyson Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Oklahoma City,Oklahoma Posts: 11	Mr. Sottile, Doug C is right. Look at it this way...if you need to replace a bull barrel they don't make oversize diameter barrels and most of the time the slide wears as well as the barrel...so, you get the distinct pleasure of replacing and refitting a $200.00 (plus) slide along with a new barrel. With a standard bushing it only costs approx. $15.00 or less for a new bushing plus your barrel, and if you make a mistake or don't get the fit you want you just refit another bushing and go on down the road. Since on this project I gather you are experimenting to learn "how to do it," I would opt for the traditional bushing... If you need to add weight under the barrel you can go with a Tungsten guide rod if it doesn't violate an "Association Rule"(IDPA)etc. Irv Stone at Bar Sto has been kind enough to make up custom bushings for me for some stock Paras as large as .713". Good Luck :smile:!- Barry

07-19-2001, 05:37 AM	#6
Frank Sottile Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Wimberley, Texas Posts: 92	Thank You All, Wise words from the Doctor. If I do use the SVI Slide (and it looks like I will) then the smart way to go will be the Standard Bushing/Barrel Combo.

07-27-2001, 10:58 AM	#7
telackey Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 170	I think the worries about wearing out the fit are a bit overstated. You have to consider first that the wear area on a properly fitted bull barrel is significantly more than with a bushing, therefore there is less wear. Also, I have heard mentioned by Mr Burns, the bull barrel is more accurate generally as it delays unlocking until the bullet has entirely cleared the barrel (this also helps the shooter achieve the better accuracy), and lastly, as mentioned above, they are more reliable when tightly fitted than a bushing setup. All that said, I am not sure you will notice a difference, and bull barrels are illegal in IDPA, as are tungsten or otherwise enhanced guiderods.

07-27-2001, 12:45 PM	#8
gyp_c2 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Colorado or Louisiana or... Posts: 1,420	Who has shot out a Bar-Sto lately? Just wondering...they must not be holdin' up so well? Or is it another Bull maker that their barrels shoot out so fast? How many rounds does it take to wear out a barrel like that anyway? 100000? I don't have a clue...I know I'll not be the one doin' it, but some of youse'must be shootin' that much to worry about shootin 'em out...Think I'll call 'em just to find out... :wink:

07-27-2001, 02:40 PM	#9
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 875	Go ahead and have a 9x19 barrel fitted while you are at it (if your gunsmith thinks he can make them feed.) You will soon get tired of crawling around on the ground after 9x23 empties. Not to mention sorting them out from the Supers and TJs and MCM etc, etc. Note that IDPA does not allow a long dust cover, either, so get the regular length frame if you plan to ever shoot at the state or national level where there would be an equipment check. Also you cannot shoot a 9xAnything at Major power factor in USPSA Limited, there is a .40 floor. That will be a big hindrance to decent placement.

07-30-2001, 08:31 AM	#12
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 875	gyp, Frank, The IDPA rule book-new green edition-says: Enhanced Service Pistol, EXCLUDED Modifications... Heavy barrels, cone barrels, and/or barrel sleeves (factory or aftermarket.) Add on weights, weighted magazines, tungsten guide rods, extended dust covers.

07-30-2001, 10:15 AM	#13
telackey Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 170	I wonder if one could use a bull-barrel gun in IDPA if the barrel were fluted to match the standard weight of a barrel and bushing?

07-31-2001, 10:24 AM	#14
gyp_c2 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Colorado or Louisiana or... Posts: 1,420	Huh...that mostly sucks I guess...seems like ya' oughta' be able to use a 4" since it's shorter and would be what a gazillion people carry anyway...Oh well...I guess dems da' rules... :wink:

07-31-2001, 11:21 AM	#15
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 875	gyp, Curiously enough, you can... if it is a .45ACP. Custom Defensive Pistol allows: "Factory installed cone style barrels are permitted on pistols with a barrel length of 4.2” or less." telackey, I don't think so.

08-03-2001, 12:55 PM	#17
JiminCA Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Kalifornia Posts: 169	Yup, couldn't have the CQB compact disqualified now, could we?

08-03-2001, 02:48 PM	#18
gyp_c2 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Colorado or Louisiana or... Posts: 1,420	HA...you DO see between the lines... :wink:

08-03-2001, 03:53 PM	#19
Bandit Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Texas Posts: 12	It's my understanding that IDPA will only allow Bull or coned barrels on pistols that come from the factory in that configuration i.e. a SA Champion, Officer Model Etc Etc.. I could be wrong though.. Rick

08-04-2001, 03:00 PM	#20
gyp_c2 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Colorado or Louisiana or... Posts: 1,420	That would fit the criteria of less than 5' like a government with an aftermarket barrel I guess...The Wilson is 4" I think, the Kimber Pro series...I guess quite a few...