9x23 carbine

MeestaSparkle · 12-02-2007, 07:57 PM

Hey!
I stumbled upon this forum while googling info for 9x23. Looking into building a 9x23 ar that is gas operated.. but I want to know if its worth the trouble. I read someone claiming 1550 fps from 9mm +p+ out of a carbine barrel (16" maybe?.. i can't remember if it was sbr or not).. i read about the same for 9x23 out of a ppsh on this website. What do you think 9x23 could do? I'd probably have to use starline brass, but the chamber could be fully supported. What advantage could I see?

Thanks, and great forum!

Bill Caldwell · 12-03-2007, 06:38 AM

Depends on what bullet weight .....124gr will go 1600fps+ from a 5in. barrel. Split a peice of Starline brass from top to bottom down the center.....Do the same with Winchester 9x23 brass....Observe the difference in the thickness of the case walls, then decide which brass You will load.

Only 9x23 ARs I've dealt with were gas operated.....I wouldn't want a 9x23 blow back like the 9mm Olympic I own.....This rifle will fire out of battery, the bolt does not lock up. We learned this when We were workin' with the .224 Zipperer in semi auto carbines.

You should pick up 35fps to 50fps for each inch of barrel length you add.

Problem will be pistol bullets that stay together at that speed.
Bill Caldwell

MeestaSparkle · 12-03-2007, 11:28 AM

The bullet weight would be 124gr, most likely cast with a gas check, or 115gr fmj. The barrel length would be 16" because I don't want to do all the sbr stuff. A lot of barrel blanks I found were 1 in 10" twist, which seems to me like it might be too much at higher speeds, what twist would you suggest? I would want to use starline because I want to keep this affordable. If I have to spend $30 per hundred pieces it kind of defeats the purpose for me. So, based on that, including any load reduction due to starline brass (still in a filly supported chamber), what velocity gain could I get over the 9mm?

This is not a build for a new toy, this is more for practicality and cost effectiveness. I want a 9mm with a little more punch so I can reach a little farther to knock down steel and still afford to shoot. Since I already cast and have stockpiled lead, this is the most affordable option for me (don't want to mess with casting for .223, besides, it wouldn't be worth what seem to be the typical results). It would also be nice to be able to use the same bullets to load for my 9mm pistol.

If it's not worth it I want to know so I can figure something else out, which is why I'm asking the experts

Edited to add because I forgot,
It is worth noting that I will be using a slower burning powder for the cast loads. So the pressure curve will be flatter. One reason I wanted 9x23 is because 9mm seems a waste from a 16" inch barrel, pretty much all the powder used up before the 16". The extra case capacity could be put to good use without necessarily raising the pressure excessively (using a slow powder)... at least in theory.

grendelbane · 12-07-2007, 05:23 PM

I too have wanted a 9x23mm AR15 for quite some time now. The PPS-43 magazines hold 9x23mm's quite nicely, all that is needed is a mag block.

Quickload says that Starline 9x23mm SC with a 115 grain bullet will hit 1860 FPS from a 16" barrel with a hefty, (compressed) charge of Blue Dot. This is with a maximum chamber pressure of 36,154 PSI. I don't doubt that many people have loaded it to higher pressures, but that is as high as Quickload goes without flashing red. (Danger, Will Robinson!!!).

A similar pressure load in 9mm Parabellum is about 165 FPS slower. Now these are software simulations, not actual measurements, but it should give you an idea of the difference in performance of the 2.

Is the difference worth the extra cost and trouble?

Joe Ford · 12-17-2007, 12:04 AM

something else I have noticed,,,, Gas operated and cast bullets.. How is that gonna work and for how long ? I think there are better solutions. how about 300 wisper ? or 7.62X39 ? or maybe 30 carbine ?

BLDR · 06-12-2012, 07:02 AM

I already have a 9X23 carbine! It uses a 1911 receiver as its trigger assembly. So, I take my receiver assembly off my 1911, 9X23 and just attach it to the carbine. It has a 16" barrel, no iron sights and comes with a scope ramp. I have a 3X9X40 scope for it. I bought it new back in the late 90s. I should have kept the box because there is no manufacturer listed on the piece itself, or caliber designation. Any help with that would be appreciated. Email is bubf3098@yahoo.com. Thanks!

12-02-2007, 07:57 PM	#1
MeestaSparkle Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2	9x23 vs 9mm +p+ from carbine Hey! I stumbled upon this forum while googling info for 9x23. Looking into building a 9x23 ar that is gas operated.. but I want to know if its worth the trouble. I read someone claiming 1550 fps from 9mm +p+ out of a carbine barrel (16" maybe?.. i can't remember if it was sbr or not).. i read about the same for 9x23 out of a ppsh on this website. What do you think 9x23 could do? I'd probably have to use starline brass, but the chamber could be fully supported. What advantage could I see? Thanks, and great forum!

12-03-2007, 06:38 AM	#2
Bill Caldwell Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Louisiana Posts: 951	9x23 AR Depends on what bullet weight .....124gr will go 1600fps+ from a 5in. barrel. Split a peice of Starline brass from top to bottom down the center.....Do the same with Winchester 9x23 brass....Observe the difference in the thickness of the case walls, then decide which brass You will load. Only 9x23 ARs I've dealt with were gas operated.....I wouldn't want a 9x23 blow back like the 9mm Olympic I own.....This rifle will fire out of battery, the bolt does not lock up. We learned this when We were workin' with the .224 Zipperer in semi auto carbines. You should pick up 35fps to 50fps for each inch of barrel length you add. Problem will be pistol bullets that stay together at that speed. Bill Caldwell

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12-03-2007, 11:28 AM	#3
MeestaSparkle Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2	The bullet weight would be 124gr, most likely cast with a gas check, or 115gr fmj. The barrel length would be 16" because I don't want to do all the sbr stuff. A lot of barrel blanks I found were 1 in 10" twist, which seems to me like it might be too much at higher speeds, what twist would you suggest? I would want to use starline because I want to keep this affordable. If I have to spend $30 per hundred pieces it kind of defeats the purpose for me. So, based on that, including any load reduction due to starline brass (still in a filly supported chamber), what velocity gain could I get over the 9mm? This is not a build for a new toy, this is more for practicality and cost effectiveness. I want a 9mm with a little more punch so I can reach a little farther to knock down steel and still afford to shoot. Since I already cast and have stockpiled lead, this is the most affordable option for me (don't want to mess with casting for .223, besides, it wouldn't be worth what seem to be the typical results). It would also be nice to be able to use the same bullets to load for my 9mm pistol. If it's not worth it I want to know so I can figure something else out, which is why I'm asking the experts Edited to add because I forgot, It is worth noting that I will be using a slower burning powder for the cast loads. So the pressure curve will be flatter. One reason I wanted 9x23 is because 9mm seems a waste from a 16" inch barrel, pretty much all the powder used up before the 16". The extra case capacity could be put to good use without necessarily raising the pressure excessively (using a slow powder)... at least in theory.

12-07-2007, 05:23 PM	#4
grendelbane Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 74	I too have wanted a 9x23mm AR15 for quite some time now. The PPS-43 magazines hold 9x23mm's quite nicely, all that is needed is a mag block. Quickload says that Starline 9x23mm SC with a 115 grain bullet will hit 1860 FPS from a 16" barrel with a hefty, (compressed) charge of Blue Dot. This is with a maximum chamber pressure of 36,154 PSI. I don't doubt that many people have loaded it to higher pressures, but that is as high as Quickload goes without flashing red. (Danger, Will Robinson!!!). A similar pressure load in 9mm Parabellum is about 165 FPS slower. Now these are software simulations, not actual measurements, but it should give you an idea of the difference in performance of the 2. Is the difference worth the extra cost and trouble?

12-17-2007, 12:04 AM	#5
Joe Ford Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 373	something else I have noticed,,,, Gas operated and cast bullets.. How is that gonna work and for how long ? I think there are better solutions. how about 300 wisper ? or 7.62X39 ? or maybe 30 carbine ?

06-12-2012, 07:02 AM	#6
BLDR Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Bloomington, Indiana Posts: 1	I already have a 9X23 carbine! It uses a 1911 receiver as its trigger assembly. So, I take my receiver assembly off my 1911, 9X23 and just attach it to the carbine. It has a 16" barrel, no iron sights and comes with a scope ramp. I have a 3X9X40 scope for it. I bought it new back in the late 90s. I should have kept the box because there is no manufacturer listed on the piece itself, or caliber designation. Any help with that would be appreciated. Email is bubf3098@yahoo.com. Thanks!