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Old 11-07-2010, 05:50 PM   #1
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EAA Elite Match .38 Super

Greetings all, can an EAA Elite Match .38 Super safely chamber and fire 9x23 Winchester without modification?

If not, what type of modification needs to be done to the barrel? Would it need to be reamed a little deeper?

Thanks,

Phil
 
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Old 11-12-2010, 05:07 AM   #2
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9x23 is longer than a 9x19. Need a new barrel(or chamber). I would opt for a new barrel in order to have both.
 
Old 11-13-2010, 01:57 PM   #3
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Welcome, Phil. Some gunsmiths feel that it's not a good idea to use 9x23 ammo in a.38 super barrel because the taper isn't quite the same between the two cases, and of course the 9x23 is much hotter than .38 super.

Having said that, I used to shoot 9x23 factory ammo out of a Colt Series 80 (specifically a 1991 Model w/large rollmarks) chambered for .38 super, without any difficulties. I did, however, use an 18 lb. rather than 16 lb. recoil spring.

Sarge, you made a mistake with regard to your reply: .38 super is roughly the same length as the 9x23 Winchester round. In fact, the latter was developed as an alternative for IPSC shooters who had feeding problems when using the .38 super in double column magazines, because of its small semirim. The 9x23 doesn't have a semirim, hence the rounds stack up better in the mags. The 9x23 cases are also made a little stouter than the .38 supers, thus allowing IPSC's power factor to be made a bit more easily.

9x19, a/k/a 9mm Parabellum or Luger cases are--you got it--about 4mm shorter than the .38 super and 9x23 Winchester.

Sarge, you've been very helpful to folks on here so I thought you'd want some polite correction on this topic, no harm intended.
 
Old 11-14-2010, 04:05 PM   #4
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Thanks Brian, I appreciate the info. Rimless is the reason I prefer the 9x23 Winchester over .38 Super, because it has less chance of a magazine jam up.
 
Old 11-15-2010, 05:21 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian D. View Post
Welcome, Phil. Some gunsmiths feel that it's not a good idea to use 9x23 ammo in a.38 super barrel because the taper isn't quite the same between the two cases, and of course the 9x23 is much hotter than .38 super.

Having said that, I used to shoot 9x23 factory ammo out of a Colt Series 80 (specifically a 1991 Model w/large rollmarks) chambered for .38 super, without any difficulties. I did, however, use an 18 lb. rather than 16 lb. recoil spring.

Sarge, you made a mistake with regard to your reply: .38 super is roughly the same length as the 9x23 Winchester round. In fact, the latter was developed as an alternative for IPSC shooters who had feeding problems when using the .38 super in double column magazines, because of its small semirim. The 9x23 doesn't have a semirim, hence the rounds stack up better in the mags. The 9x23 cases are also made a little stouter than the .38 supers, thus allowing IPSC's power factor to be made a bit more easily.

9x19, a/k/a 9mm Parabellum or Luger cases are--you got it--about 4mm shorter than the .38 super and 9x23 Winchester.

Sarge, you've been very helpful to folks on here so I thought you'd want some polite correction on this topic, no harm intended.
And you are of course correct. I had a brain fart. Had 9mm on my mind vs 9x23 when I answered instead of 38super vs 9x23. Thanks for being so polite in correcting me. You are a gentleman of exceptional character!
 
Old 11-15-2010, 02:36 PM   #6
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Sarge, I try to take my cue from Stephen Camp, who posts on several gun forums and is like the poster child for polite discourse. Only wish I was as gun-smart as he is.

Since you've been on this site I've seen you be very helpful, and nice about it to boot. That's critical on boards like this that are practically unmoderated/unsupervised.
 
Old 11-16-2010, 10:07 AM   #7
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Could you please tell my wife how nice I am!
 
Old 01-04-2011, 01:53 PM   #8
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The posts on this thread are exemplary of the level of knowledge, the willingness to share information, and the curtesy that is commonplace amongst the members of this Forum. It's a privilege and pleasure to belong.......
 
Old 01-04-2011, 03:30 PM   #9
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Would it optimize function to run a 9X23 chamber reamer through a .38 super barrel?

I realize that this would prevent return to .38 super use.
 
Old 09-08-2011, 12:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cohee View Post
Would it optimize function to run a 9X23 chamber reamer through a .38 super barrel?

I realize that this would prevent return to .38 super use.
would it be correct to use 38super ammo in a 9x23 chamber(after a reaming) but expect a shortened life for brass due to excessive stretching?

Last edited by raybo; 09-08-2011 at 01:40 PM.
 
Old 09-18-2011, 11:28 PM   #11
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You need to run search(es) here. IIRC, Wild Bill did a lot of work w/9x23. Seems he said a properly chambered .38 Super would fire 9x23 okay. It might need stronger springs though.

Don't take my word on that. Search for it.
 
Old 03-19-2012, 05:45 AM   #12
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OK, I'm not an expert but I have been working on this for a while. I am using the EAA Witness platform.

If anything I say here is Just Plain Wrong® please delete it and inform me of my error so that I may learn.

I have looked up the cartridge dimensions for .38 Super and 9x23 Win. on Ammoguide.com and found the following:

The case lengths are exactly the same. This means that in any barrel that headspaces on the case mouth both cartridges will headspace the same.

Both use .355" diameter bullets.

The Super case mouth diameter is .003" larger than the 9x23. Not significant. This should not increase the bullet pull, nor the operating pressure.

The 9x23 case diameter just ahead of the extractor groove is .0071" larger than the Super, since the 9x23 is tapered and the Super is not. So a Super chamber MIGHT be a bit tight on a 9x23 cartridge, but it won't be any too loose. If you are reloading, you are probably sizing your brass down to Super diameter or a bit less anyway, because that's how most carbide dies do it.

So my opinion is that 9x23 will work in all but the very tightest .38 Super chambers, and work well with no safety problems.

I have found this to be true in two different EAA Witness .38 Super barrels, one a 4.5" and one a 3.6" that has been Mag-Na-Ported. I replaced one of the extractors with a 9mm Parabellum extractor, but this did not seem to be necessary, and in fact both extractors measure identically.

I know this won't help the majority here who run 1911's, but it is just some more info for the 9x23 database.

I shall be reporting on some load data in both the 4.5" and 3.6" barrels once I get some loads tested.
 
Old 03-19-2012, 06:59 AM   #13
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WELCOME to the forum, Bob. That's one HELLUVA first post--very informative ! ! !
 
Old 03-20-2012, 04:51 AM   #14
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Thanks Joe,

I try to use my ears (or eyes) more than my mouth (or keyboard).
Been reading up here and elsewhere.

Just got my loading room set up and pulled the chrono out of storage, so I thought I'd put 'em both to good use.

I'm working on some 9mm major loads too.
 
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