|10-25-2002, 08:27 AM||#1|
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Issaquah, WA
Bad 9x23 advice?
9x23 is a "different" caliber. In a 1911 you are running rifle chamber pressures in a handgun with the Winchester factory loads. Only Winchester brass is made to take it. Second choice in brass is 9mm Super Comp brass from Starline. BEWARE, the brass is not equal! Do not treat them as such. The 9x23 Winchester brass was made to run at 50K CUP and from a correctly fitted, unramped barrel. If you are going to run other than Winchester brass I would HIGHLY suggest building your gun on a ramped barrel. That said I have build dozens with an unramped barrel with zero problems. Barrel throating and the correct frame ramps are critical to a safe 9x23. Winchester brass is an extra margin of safety in either design with maximum loads. (which factory ammo is)
This forum has any number of followers. Some of the info posted here about 9x23 is pure bunk. Some of the info is straight forward and worth listening too. BE VERY CAREFUL when following the advice of anyone in a Internet forum about gun related issues. In the case of 9x23 be very, very, very careful :roll:
For some helpful info there are 5 or 6 pages at www.burnscustom.com on the 9x23. Look in the scroll bar on the far left for "All about 9x23" and click there. The info I have given on the BCP web site is proven over years of building and shooting 9x23 and the 9mm major guns before it.
Some of the FAQs on 9x23: (thanks Ray)
1) Which dies do I use? Which resizing die do I use? Some use 9x23 dies across the board which are available from several sources. Some use 9mm with a 9x23 sizing die. I load on Dillion machines and use a 9mm Dillion die sets, adjusted accordingly and have tried most of the options.
2) Can I run .38 super in the same chamber? My answer is "not a good idea". What do I need to change? - "Get a .38 super gun to run .38 super", which involves a new extractor and the barrel chambered correctly for Super. But there are well known smiths who have suggested otherwise.
3) Can I run 9mm in my 9x23? Sure, just change the barrel to one correctly chambered. The mag and ejector will be the same ,extractor is not. Spring set up depends on power factor. Answer #2 pretty much covers the comments again including what others have suggested.
4) Factory ammo? Winchester has two loads that max out this caliber with the powder they used...WAP. CP and Mullins offer factory 9x23 last I checked. 9mm Largo ammo does NOT run in a 9x23. The OAL is too long. Shortening the OAL will up the pressure to a dangerious level and you'll blow a case.
5) 9x23 Winchester Brass or early CP brass is the brass of choice for major power loads. Nothing else will duplicate it. Starline 9mm Super Comp brass is the second choice for hot loads. But I only recommned Winchester brass for any use in a 9x23.
6) Don't bother to look at a 9x23 gun unless you already reload and are fairly good at it. Blowing up a 50K CUP case can be unpleasant and expensive
7) Unramped barrels shooting 170 PF loads, or more, are not an issue with Vectan powder and Winchester brass. The case was designed to do just that and the guns are more reliable IMO. If in doubt or you want to use other brass safely, have the gun built with a ramped barrel.
8 ) Factory guns were built by Springfield with a ramped barrel and Colt with an unramped barrel. Both guns were conversions from 38 Super done at the factory. Nowlin, Brown, SVI and LB all offer 9x23 guns last I heard. Most custom makers offer the same. My acid test for any custom maker is "do you shoot a 9x23 yourself?" If the answer is no, look else where, it just might save you a major head ache and some cash.
Vectan SP-2 seems to be one of the best powders currently to duplicate or better factory ammo. Reamers are still incorrect in factory form with Winchester ammo or max loads.
9x23 is a great caliber, do your own research, look for facts, form your own opinions and have fun with it! Just be careful 8)
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