Pistolsmith

Go Back   Pistolsmith > Ammunition Forum > Ammunition


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-27-2006, 03:48 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 17
Potential 1911 project in .41 AE.

I recently acquired a new 1911 barrel in .41 Action Express. I'm not sure as to why but it did appeal to my sense of gravitating toward off-the-wall calibers in the 1911 format. Anyway, it's stainless steel, unramped, and Government length and I'm starting to think about build ideas centered around it. Would a frame and slide cut for 9mm/.38 Super be OK or should I use a .40 S&W/10mm size? I am aware that the .41 AE uses the same rebated rim that the good ol' 9mm does so that, in theory, .41 could be used in a 9mm based weapon. The thing that's bugging me is the extra .055" difference in diameter. I'm guessing that the .40 S&W/10mm feed ramp and ejection port would be a better fit and even then it's still .010" bigger. What size magazines would work with .41 AE? Finally, what caliber-specific small parts would be best? I'm wondering about the extractor, ejector, and slide stop.

I welcome any insights and suggestions.
 
Remove Ads
Old 08-27-2006, 06:26 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 951
.41ACTION EXPRESS PROJECT

I think I've got one .41 a.e. barrel left in My shop. Seems like I saw it fairly recently. I don't remember buildin' a .41 a.e. in a while.

First question would be, where are You gonna find brass? How expensive is it? Do You know the more expensive the brass, the easier a 1911 will hide it from You.? It's goin' in every snake hole , rat hole, doodlebug hole....every pile of horse dookey.

Best I remember I pay $150.oo per 1000 for .40 Super brass. If You use a .45 slide...You can chamber for.40 super, then open the chamber neck the required thousandths....without goin to the shop to be sure, I'd guess, openin' the neck to .428 will work....Run a .41 mag expander plug in the .40 Super case neck, openin' the neck to .41 and have a cartridge that will do anything the .41A.E. will do easily And a Hell of a lot more if you load hot. You can run right up against a .41Mag.

If You are dead set on a .41A.E......and I may be way off on this....use a 9MM slide, 9MM ejector, and You might have to work with the extractor, bend it in some and possibly reshape the hook. 1911 .40 cal or 10mm mags should work. Either way is doable....My opinion...40Super is the best way to go.

Thanks,
Bill Caldwell
 
Old 08-28-2006, 06:06 PM   #3
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 17
Bill,

As always, many thanks for the input. First off, I do not reload at this point in time, so for now, that eliminates the .40 Super as well. Yeah, I know, the few sources I've found for loaded .41 AE ammo are not cheap - by any stretch - but at least it's available. Here's my train of thought: the toughest obstacle to overcome, when it comes to 1911 builds (especially in odd-ball calibers) is finding a correctly chambered barrel. This was too good to pass up and so, for now, I'm stuck with a .41 AE barrel that needs a home. I figure I'd better try and do something with it. Allow me to clarify, per your recommendations: Are 9MM/.38 Super size parts good to go? From a dimensional perspective, .41 AE seems to be closer in size to .40 S&W/10MM or even .45 ACP. Realizing that the extractor may require some tweaking, regardless what size it is, what would be a good base to start with?

Thanks again.
 
Old 08-28-2006, 06:48 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 951
41 ACTION EXPRESS PROJECT

Pinotguy,

Think that comes under JHTH

Been down that road with anything and everything known to man includin' but not limited to, women...guns...guitars...horses...dirt trackin'...the list goes on an on an is just about endless.

Since the case head and rim are so close to the 9MM in size, I think... without putin' thought into it I would have to charge You for...The 9MM slide, ejector, and extractor will work.

With Your intrest in different cartridges.... You might be well served takin' up reloadin'.

Another interestin' Wildkat is the 9MM Action Express.....Thats the 41Action Express necked to 9MM.

But....Have You considered the fact that the .40 S&W Comes within a flake or two of havin' the same powder capacity as the 41A.E?? Since You don't reload, it's not very important to You, but... 40 Brass cost around one cent a piece. I'd bet a 40S&W can be loaded to do anything the 41A.E. will do. Granted...The .41 is.O10 (ten thousandth) bigger.

Thanks,
Bill Caldwell
 
Old 08-28-2006, 07:51 PM   #5
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 17
Bill,

Your sagacity knows no bounds. . .

Inevitably, I'll get around to reloading. For now, it's just not feasible under current circumstances. Someday though.

I'll take your advice regarding the 9MM parts. This comes as good news since those are fairly common and relatively easy to come by.

9MM AE is interesting but it's even more rare than .41 AE. Until I come across a 9MM AE barrel, that will have to wait.

As far as .40 S&W goes, I've already got a 1911 in 10MM. I'll never be able to explain it, but since I have a .41 AE barrel, I feel obligated to focus on it for the time being.

Once again, thanks.
 
Old 09-08-2006, 02:33 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 503
I think Bill provided the answers but just to supplement them, I have had in the past a Browning and a CZ converted to the .41 AE.

The 9mm bolt face is what works. I certainly would not invest in a 9mm/Super .38 slide just to use the barrel that will duplicate .40 S&W with much more expensive ammo.

OTOH, if one has a 9mm or Super .38 Govt model then a 10mm or .40 S&W mag (or even a Wilson mag in .45 ACP) should function well enough.

I never found the rebated rim of the .41 AE to be quite reliable enough for staking my life on. But then for just goofing around or hunting it probably would suffice.

Short rounds dont tend to work quite as well in the 1911 but one can fiddle around with OAL on the cartridges and probably get better function.

Good luck!

Jim
 
Old 09-08-2006, 05:29 PM   #7
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Higginbotham
I think Bill provided the answers but just to supplement them, I have had in the past a Browning and a CZ converted to the .41 AE.

The 9mm bolt face is what works. I certainly would not invest in a 9mm/Super .38 slide just to use the barrel that will duplicate .40 S&W with much more expensive ammo.

OTOH, if one has a 9mm or Super .38 Govt model then a 10mm or .40 S&W mag (or even a Wilson mag in .45 ACP) should function well enough.

I never found the rebated rim of the .41 AE to be quite reliable enough for staking my life on. But then for just goofing around or hunting it probably would suffice.

Short rounds dont tend to work quite as well in the 1911 but one can fiddle around with OAL on the cartridges and probably get better function.

Good luck!

Jim
Jim,

Thanks a million. Good additional information. At this stage, I am dedicated to this project and will be ordering a frame and slide - but I want to make sure that I specify the correct breech face and feed ramp. Per your and Bill's input, I've settled on a slide with a 9mm breech face and a frame with a .40 S&W/10mm feed ramp.

I would like to pick your brain about .41 AE loads. You mentioned that some experimentation with cartridge OAL might yield a more reliably feeding/cycling round. What has been your experience with regard to bullet weight? I figure that this is the most logical way to change a cartridge's OAL.

Thanks once again.
 
Old 09-08-2006, 06:53 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 503
Pintoguy;

The really good news here is that you will then have an excuse to build a Super .38 on that frame and slide also. And then a 9X23!

There is a never ending list of projects with a 1911

Jim
 
Old 09-08-2006, 07:40 PM   #9
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 17
Jim,

9x23 has already been addressed. Don't see much need for .38 Super after that.

I couldn't agree more with you regarding potential 1911 projects - I've got at least a dozen things swirling around in my head right now.

With regard to .41 AE - what are your suggestions on how to address the cartridge OAL question?
 
Old 09-10-2006, 03:26 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 503
This is just a guess but the guys who make the .40 run reliably in the 1911 are loading 220 gr bullets to 1.25" OAL. Of course they will not fit in most standard .40 caliber mags or chamber in a standard chamber.

This would probably work in the .41 (again then it would not fit in another mag for a converted 9mm like a Browning or CZ) and you would probably have to to have the throat in the .41 AE barrle lengthened some.

Oddly enough bullets should be no problem as there are plenty available for the .41 Mag.

However note that most of the folks who shoot lengthened .40 S&W are all about competition and they are shooting 220gr bullets at about 600 fps. I am not sure ballistically that is were you want to be.

If I wanted ballistics in the .40 or .41AE factory range I would probably just risk the occasional malfunction, since any 1911 I carried for defense would be a .45 anyway - unless I was just in a mood to give the opposition a little bit of an advantage

For hunting, in most cases, I would probably like the factory ballistics. I think I loaded some Sierry 170gr JHPs in mine in the old days. I also think Speer made some Gold Dot .41AEs in either 170 or 180 gr. but I could be wrong. Seems like Samson 200gr fmjs hit about 900-950 fps.

Good luck with the project.

Jim
 
Old 09-10-2006, 04:11 PM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 74
I saw a .41 AE barrel on E-Bay not too long ago, and I felt the same temptation that you did. So I checked availability of brass, and while Midway does carry it, it must be made of gold instead of brass.

Considering I have a .41 Avenger barrel which lays around and collects dust most of the time, it would be a ballistic redundancy to have a .41 AE, also.

Though as Bill points out, logic does not always supercede JHTH!

I just had to have a 357 SIG barrel for my Delta Elite. Well, I got it, and I finally got it running decent, after a great deal of trouble. Now it also mostly collects dust while I shoot my 9x23mm, with about the same ballistics, much more reliability, and one round more capacity.

It is a never ending battle. Kind of fun, though.
 
Old 09-10-2006, 05:34 PM   #12
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by grendelbane
I saw a .41 AE barrel on E-Bay not too long ago, and I felt the same temptation that you did. So I checked availability of brass, and while Midway does carry it, it must be made of gold instead of brass.

Considering I have a .41 Avenger barrel which lays around and collects dust most of the time, it would be a ballistic redundancy to have a .41 AE, also.

Though as Bill points out, logic does not always supercede JHTH!

I just had to have a 357 SIG barrel for my Delta Elite. Well, I got it, and I finally got it running decent, after a great deal of trouble. Now it also mostly collects dust while I shoot my 9x23mm, with about the same ballistics, much more reliability, and one round more capacity.

It is a never ending battle. Kind of fun, though.
GB,

I can't help but commiserate and agree with you on the weirdo cartridges out there. It's fun yet discouraging and sometimes down-right frustrating. I'm a 1911-only guy so all of the things I'm thinking about are within those confines. I've scoured all the resources I know of for .41 AE and have come across a sizeable amount but it sure cost me. I'm seriously considering Bill's advice about reloading.

Wait till I get involved on a thread about rifle calibers - .257 Roberts, .307 Win., 35 Whelen etc.
 
Old 09-10-2006, 05:51 PM   #13
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Higginbotham
This is just a guess but the guys who make the .40 run reliably in the 1911 are loading 220 gr bullets to 1.25" OAL. Of course they will not fit in most standard .40 caliber mags or chamber in a standard chamber.

This would probably work in the .41 (again then it would not fit in another mag for a converted 9mm like a Browning or CZ) and you would probably have to to have the throat in the .41 AE barrle lengthened some.

Oddly enough bullets should be no problem as there are plenty available for the .41 Mag.

However note that most of the folks who shoot lengthened .40 S&W are all about competition and they are shooting 220gr bullets at about 600 fps. I am not sure ballistically that is were you want to be.

If I wanted ballistics in the .40 or .41AE factory range I would probably just risk the occasional malfunction, since any 1911 I carried for defense would be a .45 anyway - unless I was just in a mood to give the opposition a little bit of an advantage

For hunting, in most cases, I would probably like the factory ballistics. I think I loaded some Sierry 170gr JHPs in mine in the old days. I also think Speer made some Gold Dot .41AEs in either 170 or 180 gr. but I could be wrong. Seems like Samson 200gr fmjs hit about 900-950 fps.

Good luck with the project.

Jim
Jim,

Much obliged for the insights. FWIW, I noticed that Mr. Reed is making some .41 AE ammo. He lists a 170-gr. JHP at 1230 FPS and a 210-gr. JHP at around 1150 FPS. These seem to be fairly potent although I think that .41 AE can do a little more. I'm also not sure if he had the 1911-format in mind while developing these loads.

I've been thinking about a load that uses the 180-gr. Barnes XPB. Seems like you could seat this bullet at a depth where it would still be short enough to fit a 1911 10mm magazine, yet have enough ooomph to make for a decent SD round. As you noted earlier though, I would not plan on carrying this pistol - rather I'd most likely use it at the range and as a conversation piece.

Thanks again, and if something else crosses your mind - please share.
 
Old 09-13-2013, 10:39 PM   #14
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: CA
Posts: 1
If you are still on your .41 Action Express caper, I can help or I might buy your barrel.
 
Old 09-14-2013, 09:28 AM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: New Port Richey
Posts: 168
Holy Old Threads, Batman!! That barrel is probably worn out by now.
 
Reply

  Pistolsmith > Ammunition Forum > Ammunition


Search tags for this page
10 millimeter verses 41 action express action
,
1911 41 ae action express
,
41 action express 1911 magazine
,
41 action express brass
,
41 ae
,

41 ae amunition for sale

,
41 avenger barrel
,
41 avenger for sale
,

41a convert 40 cal


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project 1911 Greg Dunn Workshop 0 05-27-2005 05:14 PM
First 1911 project Ship A'Hoy Workshop 4 01-30-2005 04:20 PM
the term "Master" and its potential. RMLamey Pistolsmiths 7 02-16-2002 11:25 PM
My first 1911 project. Shay Workshop 32 10-05-2001 06:23 PM
Who Has A 1911 Project? Desert Dog Workshop 5 05-03-2001 01:59 PM

Top Gun Sites Top Sites List


Powered by vBulletin 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
Copyright © 1999-2012 Pistolsmith. All rights reserved.