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Old 07-05-2002, 03:25 PM   #1
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Winchester Ranger T-Series

I have been trying to find someplace that I can get some new Winchester Ranger T-Series ammo.

As near as I can determine - and without getting into the blatant unconstitutionality of all 20,000 gun laws - it is not against any law for me (a non-police type) individual to own this ammo. Nor is it against the laws (as near as I can tell) for anyplace to sell it to me.

I would like to buy some 9mm Luger +P+ 127 grain in this fine ammo, but I can't find a source.

Anybody know of a place where I can buy it?

Poots
 
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Old 07-10-2002, 06:34 PM   #2
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Last I checked, Botach Tactical sold the stuff (or something very close to it) for reasonable prices. I got a couple boxes of it from them without troubles several months ago. It comes in a plain white Winchester box and is labeled as "Q4280 9mm Luger +P+ 127gr. SXT (Non-Lubalox)...designed for use by law enforcement agencies only in modern pistols."

The stuff is hot, accurate from my SIG P210, zero flash and didn't cause any feed problems.
 
Old 07-11-2002, 05:23 PM   #3
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It's not illegal for you to buy it or for anyplace to sell it to you. However, Winchester is really strict with the dealers they allow to buy it from them. My LEO buddies have to show ID to get it and fill out a short form. They can also only buy two boxes at a time. Winchester can audit the dealer at any time and if they are selling it to non-LEO's, Winchester won't sell it to them anymore. Some of it sneaks out to non-Winchester-approved dealers, but it usually goes pretty fast.
 
Old 08-11-2002, 11:16 AM   #4
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The ammunition Botach was selling was the previous generation of the Ranger RA9SXTP 127gr +P+, and some early production originally ordered for NYPD, I believe, which had a Q-load Symbol designation. They were selling both the lubalox (infamous black coating) & non-lubalox (plain copper jacketed without lubalox coating)production, although I believe they're since out of it.

This stuff floats around and shows up everywhere from gunshows to uniform supply shops that aren't Winchester L/E distributors, as agency trade-ins on different ammunition.

Unless you live where there are specific laws governing the ammunition legal for sale, this stuff is only restricted to L/E sales by Winchester company policy. They're very strict about this policy, however, and you probably won't be able to talk any of their L/E distributors into selling it to you. Sometimes the distributors don't even stock it, but place the order and the shipment is sent out from the factory directly to the agency purchasing it.

The newest design of it no longer lists the SXT code in the Winchester Symbol. For example, the previous RA9SXTP 127gr +P+ is now the RA9TA 127gr +P+. Q-load designation merely means it was an order produced for an agency, generally a large order.

The bullet design of the newest release has apparently been tweaked slightly to allow for better expansion at the slightly lower velocities of the shorter barrels of the subcompact pistols.

I wouldn't wring my hands and worry about trying to find it, though, because you can buy ammunition like the Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P, and the Remington Golden Sabre 124gr +P, and similar larger caliber offerings from both manufacturers, over the counter at most gunstores, or online.
 
Old 08-11-2002, 12:08 PM   #5
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I appreciate the responses.

Based on the fact that Winchester has decided that my life as a US citizen is some how worth less than the life of a government employee either local or federal I will be giving them the Smith & Wesson treatment from now on...

There are other options and I will excercise my right as a free man to explore them.

As far as I'm concerned, Winchester can go the way of other fascist groups, but they will go there without a penny from me...

Poots
 
Old 08-15-2002, 04:34 PM   #6
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Okay, let's back the truck up a bit. Winchester did not arbitrarily decide that they were not going to sell Ranger ammo to the general public. Everyone remember the NY shooting where the nutball with the 9mm shot a number of folks with Black Talons? That prompted Daniel Moynihan and the other anti-gunners to try and ram a ban on civilian possession of hollowpoint ammo through congress. In the political climate at that time, the chances that it would pass were halfway decent, so Winchester decided to fall on their sword and voluntarily remove Black Talon from the civilian market. That is the basis for their current policy, since the Ranger series are descendants of the original Black Talon. They also will not sell +P+ ammo to the general public for liability reasons, as they cannot control what weapon you put it in and it exceeds SAAMI specs. Federal does the same thing with the 9BPLE +P+. The policy is the result of the anti-gunners' political chicanery and the runaway civil liability problems we have in this country. It has not a darn thing to do with them deciding that your life as a U.S. citizen is somehow worth less than a government employee. You might want to trouble yourself to learn the facts before you accuse a reputable company like Winchester of being 'fascists'.
 
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