Bandalero

Hello All,

I'm a casual (amateur) shooter or hobbyist and brand new to this particular forum, but some years ago (~1990), I picked up a nice little (used) stainless Delta Gold Cup (10 mm). It was an estate sale as I recall. I had no clue what I was doing at the time (I had never previously owned an auto or semi-auto), but visually, the pistol appeared to be in mint shape, and it fired a box or two of shells with no obvious or "known" performance issues. However, some twenty-years have since elapsed with no use whatsoever, and I'd really like to begin shooting it a bit at a local range (or whatever), but I've read loads of comments in various circles about slide issues and frame-cracking and other possible design flaws peculiar to this particular model.

So, my questions for the experienced audience are these:

1) Is there any practical way for an owner to inspect and tell (with confidence) whether this pistol has already sustained the dreaded frame damage or other hardships? In other words, what is it I'd be looking for, and specifically, where is it located?

2) Is there any practical way (without submitting the pistol to an experienced gunsmith), that an owner can ascertain whether the pistol has had any aftermarket customization or other modifications intended to alleviate the above referenced frame concerns (i.e., spring replacements, etc.)?

3) And lastly, I'd really like to avoid making any sub-standard or unnecessary (i.e., inexperienced) modifications to the pistol, but are there any "routine" mods that should have been (or still should be) done to this Gold Cup to help insure its long term survivability should I start to use it more frequently?

Thanks everyone. Your insights are greatly appreciated.

dfariswheel

Any damage would usually be restricted to battering or cracking of the frame, both of which are usually obvious. Look for cracks around the front of the frame rails and the slide stop hole.
Battering is deformed metal around the front of the frame rails and the recoil spring guide seat.

Inspect the recoil spring guide for unusual battering, and if it is, replace it.

To prevent damage, install a polymer recoil buffer on the recoil spring guide and replace every 1000 rounds or when it starts to show damage.

You can install a heavier recoil spring, but the factory spring usually works fine with no problems. If you go with a heavier spring, don't go TOO much stronger and watch out for problems in reliability or battering when the slide slams shut with more force.
Replace the spring every few thousand rounds.

Last, shoot lighter loaded ammo.

Bandalero

Dfariswheel,

Thanks for your insights and the detailed instructions for inspection. I appreciate it.

Obviously, I'm still learning about 1911s and semi-autos in-general, and consequently, I may not be using all of the various guns terms here properly, but to me, "polymer" means plastic (plastic recoil buffer), and I'm being told by others to replace anything original that is 'plastic' in nature, with aftermarket 'steel' components.

Specifically, in the process of researching the topic further this past 24-hours, I've been advised to replace the current spring assembly with a stiffer Wolff brand (perhaps 22-24 lb.) recoil spring and to install a CP brand Tuff Buffs Guide Rod. However, I cannot locate the latter product anywhere at the retail or on-line levels. So, for now, I'll keep looking.

Thanks again.

Bandalero

There appear to be two distinct schools of thought on this issue:

1) Those who advocate leaving the pistol alone (i.e., that Colt knew precisely what it was doing when it was designed the Delta and there's no reason or need to modify the factory (short plastic guide rod/dual recoil spring) assembly, and . . .

2) Those who advocate swapping-out the plastic factory guide rod/dual spring assembly for a full-length all-steel guide rod with 24# Wolff replacement recoil spring.

However, aspects of both approaches remain a bit troublesome to me and hopefully someone here can help me make sense of it:

First, to hear others tell it, leaving the pistol alone [i.e., leaving the factory four-piece (spring plug/plastic guide rod/dual-spring) assembly in place] may lead to a cracked frame or other structural damage. But those who advocate the opposite approach (i.e., installing an aftermarket three-piece (spring plug/full-length guide rod/lone recoil spring) often suggest the added use of a plastic recoil buffer?!@#$%^&?

So the question becomes, what's the point? Why replace an original short plastic guide rod (which buffered against recoil) with a full-length, all steel guide rod that still requires a plastic recoil buffer of some kind to be added (i.e., Tuff Buff, etc.)? I don't know what I'm missing here, but this simply that makes no sense to me. Add to that, the fact that others who have done this mod (i.e., the full-length guide rod) often complain of auto-loading (jamming) anomalies and other malfunctions.

Can anyone help educate me on this? I've got all of the parts available here to go either way, but I'd sure appreciate some expert feedback from experienced others out there.

Thanx All

dfariswheel

Its one of those "your option" things.
There IS no "right way", it all depends on what you think is best.

Best option of all: Shoot lighter loaded ammo.

Bandalero

O.K., so, its a matter of personal choice. I guess I'll just have to go out and actually evaluate both approaches in practice myself (i.e., I'll have to assume that no one else has ever done this evaluation before?!@#$%^?) That's cool! Its a probably a better approach anyway.

But while we're on this basic subject, what about the reported practice of specifically matching your recoil spring strength to the power of your ammo (i.e., swapping back and forth as needed)? I've seen numerous references from others recently (many of whom are far more experienced than myself), saying that they generally tailor their recoil spring tension specifically to the load that they're shooting at the time, in an effort to minimize or eliminate auto-loading problems. I'll assume this means that after shooting lower-powered match loads (<1200 fps) with maybe a 20# spring, they might switch up to (say) a 24# spring before shooting something a bit hotter (e.g., 1400 fps).

As I've already acknowledged in my original post, I'm a noob at this stuff (i.e., I don't have enough experience at the range with this particular 10mm yet to know), but is this a common practice out there? Do such spring-to-ammo matching efforts actually reduce cycling problems at the range? Should a guy purchase separate recoil springs with two or more different tensions (e.g., 20# and 24#, etc.) for use with low- and high-powered ammo, respectively? Or is this just overkill?

Thanx All!

Col. Colt

As a Delta user in IPSC and having carried a Delta Gold Cup for over fifteen years, I can offer my limited experience.

The tales of "cracked frames", etc, are a bit overstated. The Deltas originally had the original 1911 design frame with the "window" you stuck the slide stop through - leaving a VERY thin sliver of metal as the top rail. Under heavy loads, this could sometimes crack on one side or the other - it was too thin for Magnum like loadings. It looked bad but had no practical effect on the gun. Colt solved the problem in a unique way - they milled away the offending tiny piece of metal. They now do this on ALL of their 1911 modern models. That was the cause of many overblown reports - and it was insignificant to the gun's structural soundness.

But if you failed to replace the springs when they got weak, the polymer guide when it got battered and instead put in a replacement Steel recoil spring guide with a standard .45ACP spring and shot hot Norma 200gr@1200fps loads or some "Super Planet Wrecker" reloads - in other words, if you were stupid - you could indeed damage the gun. A Delta is a high performance gun. Like a high performance car, it runs closer to the edge, and you can screw it up if you don't pay attention. Not for careless people.

My personal take is to stick with Stock - keep the factory setup and order a couple of spare complete factory Delta recoil systems from Colt - the standard Delta Elite is back in production and parts are readily available. I think Colt did a good job of engineering a recoil system for a gun that runs loads from .40 Short and Weak up to nearly a .41 Magnum loading - without having to change the gun in between.

If you want to run the steel recoil spring guide, do use the Shok buff (except for carry - NEVER use a ShokBuff on a Carry gun) and faithfully change springs to suit the load. 16-18lb for "Fedlite" loads, and 23-24lb spring for 200 gr. Corbon. Don't use a full length guide rod - waste of money and aggravating. Keep it clean and lubed. Avoid any old Norma 10MM ammo you find - it was overloaded and erratic. Make sure any holster you use works safely with the wider Gold Cup trigger.

Enjoy your Delta Gold Cup - they are hard to find and great guns. CC

Wild Bill Caldwell

Col. Colt....That is an excellant reply.....About all I would add is the 10mm is a fairly "HOT" round but doesn't start to compare with the 40 Super.....I've only built 40 Supers usein' Caspian frames and slides so I don't know how other brands hold up.....I've got over 10,000 rds of 40 Super thru one with no damage.....I've always preached the 1911 is much stronger than some think it to be,,,,Go back to the days We shortened and ream 30/06 cases and had the 45 Super...primers always limit how hot a 1911 can run

Wild Bill