|11-08-2003, 05:43 PM||#1|
Join Date: Feb 2003
CZ vs. Springfield P9
What do you guys think of CZs vs. P9s?? P9 is a clone of the CZ, does anyone know of the quality differences between the two? I did at one time own a P9 and an eaa witness, and the P9 was by far a better pistol.
What are your opinions?
|11-08-2003, 08:38 PM||#3|
Join Date: Jun 2001
The P9 was one of the best quality clones of the CZ ever made.
The Swiss AT guns had a better polished blue finish, but since both were made from parts supplied by Tanfoglio, the basic guns were about the same.
The biggest difference between the CZ and the various Tanfoglio clones like the P9, is the CZ is made from forged and milled slides and frames.
The Tanfoglio's are both cast steel.
I retired before a CZ crossed my bench, so I never got a chance to get inside one.
I'd want to see what's there before making a decision, but I'd likely go with the forged CZ.
I don't like the current CZ's looks with the finger rest trigger guard, the hole in the slide for a firing pin lock, the new shape of the safety, and the unnecessary ambi slide stop.
I also don't like CZ's refusal to correct the curve and position of the trigger. Tanfoglio/EAA have curved the trigger more, and shaped it closer to the rear of the trigger guard. Placing the trigger closer to the rear fits most people much better, and greatly reduces trigger reach.
For some unfathomable reason CZ just won't do this. As a result, the CZ has a greater trigger reach, and a trigger shape that doesn't feel as good as the Tanfoglio/EAA.
I will say, I was TOTALLY pleased with my late model P9, and I could kick myself for trading it off.
|11-09-2003, 01:27 PM||#4|
Join Date: Feb 2003
Would a P9 thumb safty change out with a witness safty? Has anyone seen a P9 or a CZ with front strap stippled? How does it look? Or should I pay for checkering. thanks ej45
|11-09-2003, 03:55 PM||#5|
Join Date: Jun 2001
There are several versions of safeties available for the P9/EAA.
The first model is similar to the early CZ model. This "old style" has a shallow depression in the frame that holds the safety assembly's internal parts in place. On this model, the safety has a tiny spring and a tiny flat plate with a pointed end that engages the shallow hole in the slide to provide the "click" on and off.
The second model has a hole all the way through the left side of the frame under the safety.This type has a spring loaded plunger staked inside the safety itself. The plunger engages the hole through the frame, which has a "clover leaf-like" front edge which gives the "click".
Field strip the gun, and if you can see a hole in the frame, with the inner side of the safety and it's plunger showing, it's a "new style" type.
MOST of the P9's used the "old style" safety. These are still available from EAA, and possibly from Brownell's.
You have options on the front strap.
If your gun is grooved, you can have the grooving converted to checkering, or you can stipple the area around the grooving.
If the gun is slick, light stippling looks very nice. You can use textures from light matting, up to the really rough stippling. Whatever looks and feels best to you.
If you're going to do it yourself, buy a length of 3/4" to 1" steel bar stock and experiment to see what you like.
In any event, stippling is one of those things you either like or hate. There's no doubt it improves the grip. I personally have the skills to do metal checkering, but I still prefer stippling both for the feel and for the appearance.
|11-09-2003, 05:58 PM||#6|
Join Date: Feb 2003
dfariswheel, thanks for the good info on the safties. I talked to a friend about sight replacement on the P9, he recalls problems with sight choice and sight replacement with CZs. What options in sight choice do i have.
i like heinie slant sights, could the dove tails be cutfor these?
|11-10-2003, 09:06 AM||#7|
Join Date: Jun 2001
I'm not up on the current CZ guns, so I can't be sure about custom fitting of sights.
Usually, a good 'smith can fit whatever you want, as long as it's physically possible.
Take a look at Brownell's web site. They offer about every sight available, along with fitting info. If in doubt, call them, or the sight manufacturer for compatability.
|11-13-2003, 01:06 AM||#8|
Join Date: Nov 2003
CZ vs P9
My father in law and I both owned P9s and real CZs. We used to swap the top ends and shoot the resulting frankenguns. They functioned flawlessly. The Springfield was a little blocky looking compared to the CZ IMO. The springfield functioned flawlessly though. I personally would buy a real CZ because the price has plumetted so much. Real CZs can be had for well under $400.00, a steal for what you are getting.
|11-13-2003, 05:14 AM||#9|
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
CZ sights and frames
Sights are a problem with many of the new CZs -- as there aren't many after-market providers.
The old CZs used a "staked" front sight, while the new ones (on most models) use a lengthwise dovetail. You don't just install ANY front sight on the new CZ guns, and you can't just cut a new dovetail.
Frames on the newer CZs (the "B" guns) are NOT forged, as suggested above, but cast. CZ prides itself in being one of the world's most- technologically sophisticated gun makers in its use of new computer-controlled- and metal casting technologies. The guns are very good.
The only reason I'd get a P-9 over a CZ, at comparable prices, is that I've got a bunch of CZs, and no P-9. (A new CZ, howevere, comes with a warranty.)
The CLONES aren't really clones in the common use of the word (as in "1911 clone"). They are all derived form the same basic design, but that's like saying a Corvette is a "clone" of the Camaro (or vice versa).
All of the Tanfoglio guns have substantial changes in design -- many to simplify production -- with very limited parts interchangeability with CZs.
Basic things like barrels won't interchange in most of them -- as Tanfoglio uses the same (outside diameter) barrels on their 9mms and .40s, while CZ uses different diameters for each.
You can, as noted above, often swap top-ends; but things like safeties or decockers may not work properly.
The inner mechanisms in the frames are subtly different, from simple things like the safety design, to how the hammer spring works, to the firing pin and firing pin safety mechanism, or the presence or absence of a mag break/mag retention spring. With most CZs, the mag release is not reversible; for most clones it is. Even mags won't always interchange properly -- as the EAA guns have their mag release set a bit LOWER in the grip than do CZs.
The "clones" and CZs are all good guns.
There are many more after-market parts/enhancements available for the Tanfoglio/EAA guns than CZs -- because of EAA's long involvement in IPSC, internationally. There are a LOT of EAA race guns floating around.
|11-16-2003, 06:48 AM||#10|
Join Date: Feb 2002
good info on the P9 but not all that accurate on the CZ....
The slide stops are not ambi..only the CZ83 and the fullsize 85 have the ambi stops.
The recurve trigger you speak of by Tan, is being adopted by CZ as on the PO1, PCR and such guns..........
that said.....they are all good guns....in all regards,
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