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Old 05-20-2004, 04:03 PM   #1
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Titanium Aluminum Nitride Finish

Gentlemen, I'm starting to canvass people's interest in a Titanium Aluminum Nitride finishes on their M1911s. I have established a relationship with a company that is very experienced in chemical and physical vapor deposition.

The coating is TiAlN over steel. The result is a phenomenally hard, wear resistant coating. The micro pores also act as a trap for oils so it technically is considered 'self lubricating' as the silicon in the oils will remain in the small voids. Awesome.

The thickness of the vapor coating is only 5 microns (5X10^-6 meters) so the roll pins will fit with no worries.

The result? The most durable, most corrosion resistant finish on the market.

The color is a somewhat medium gray. It can be polished to a mirror finish or be left as is. There are other options here as well. I was told of a Titanium Carbonitride that has a slightly mauve color as well as Titanium Aluminum Nitride or Titanium Nitride that is black or "very dark gray" in color.

The entire frame was coated as was the slide and all internals and rollpins. So were the Novak sights.

Cost hasn't yet been established, but we're about to establish this very soon. I do know that the price will be a function of throughput volume (monthly basis). I have to further discuss turnaround time (which is also a factor in determining the cost).

I do have photos of my Springfield Armory TRP [customized by Marianne Carniak of The Accurizer Gun Shop; Troy, MI (248) 528-1552], but I need a host site to place the photos. As soon as I find one I'll post the pictures.

Those who are seriously potentially interested (or just plain curious) please feel free to contact me via PM, e-mail or phone:

Kevin
Cell Phone: (248) 470-7366
 
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Old 05-21-2004, 08:15 AM   #2
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I am interested, but your pics don't work. Email them to me at jdenny@erols.com and I will post them from my Imagestation account.
 
Old 05-21-2004, 10:02 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10mm
I am interested, but your pics don't work. Email them to me at jdenny@erols.com and I will post them from my Imagestation account.
Thanks, 10mm. The e-mail has been sent to you.
 
Old 05-21-2004, 10:54 AM   #4
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Here are the pics from Chui:



 
Old 05-21-2004, 10:56 AM   #5
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I would like to see the finish a little darker personally. Although if it is as durable as you say I could live with the gray color. I would like to see how it looks on a polished gun.
 
Old 05-21-2004, 12:55 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10mm
I would like to see the finish a little darker personally. Although if it is as durable as you say I could live with the gray color. I would like to see how it looks on a polished gun.
I agree with you that I'd prefer it to be darker. I will be having this discussion Monday of next week. I was told that the coating can be polished to a "near mirror finish". I imagine some highlighting along the slide would be nice with a dull matt finish on the top of the slide. I'd also like to see the sides of the hammer highly polished.

That said, if it TRULY lives up to the claims (and I don't doubt it) and the surface is properly prepped then it should not flake off. I'll be trying to wear this finish with several classes and daily carry/drawing, etc. I could live with the gray, just as you've stated, but only if it performs as claimed. However, black Ti coatings exist as well and I'll inquire about them.

I've taken the firing pin (also TiAlN-coated) and we've been trying to remove the coating with no apparent wear on the finish. We've cut it in half and will drop one in a saline solution.

I'll keep in touch.

Thanks for you patience.
 
Old 05-27-2004, 08:40 AM   #7
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TiN Options

Ive just spoken with the owner and he states that he has several finishes that can vary in color from lavender to bright gold.

I informed him that the majority will prefer "dark charcoal" to "preferably black".

He's checking his processes and "doing the numbers".
 
Old 05-27-2004, 06:03 PM   #8
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Titanium Aluminum Nitride Coating... Color is DARK CHARCOAL

I picked up the TRP today. The color is ACTUALLY dark charcoal in color. :lol: There isn't much difference between the color of the sights and the color of the pistol. It's absolutely gorgeous. I was ecstatic when I looked at it because I was expecting a "concrete gray" with a greenish tint. Nope! Not at all.

I'll be taking photos and posting them -- hopefully this weekend.

I've been playing phone tag with the owner trying to discuss cost. I imagine he's been trying to figure out why it came out gray as opposed to charcoal (due to the funny lighting for the photos, apparently).

I'll get the necessary information ASAP.
 
Old 05-27-2004, 07:37 PM   #9
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Cool, I look forward to the pics & info
 
Old 06-02-2004, 04:25 AM   #10
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Springfield TRP with TiAlN Finish -- Update





These photos are correct in that the colors are accurately presented.

Things of note:

The initial slide to frame feel when working the slide is just a bit "gritty". Not especially so, but it's initially not as smooth as, say, my Wilson CQB. What is the root cause? I find the finish is ever so slightly coarse which is great for gripping the slide to rack it. Does it impede performance? No, not at all. I much prefer the surface finish (which is very matt, btw) to, say, Roguard which has a surface finish that is much more reflective and slippery.

Wear: After drawing it in and out of a kydex holster there is no observable wear. I'm now having difficulty keeping motivated to continue the '500 times a day' drawing and reinserting, but I labor on. How long will I continue this? I don't know. Maybe a month.

Dissassembling the pistol does not in anyway reflect a poor quality job at all. The roll pins fit just fine and all crevices that I can determine are coated.

The finish does seem to maintain a fine coat of oil. However, when I carry I carry in leather and when I remove the pistol it appears to be bone dry on the outside surface. However, under bright light and a fine white cloth will reveal that there IS lubrication -- I assume in the micropores.

After firing one notices a transition of material from the brass on the slide ejection port similar to what one finds on a Glock pistol. Also, by rubbing any other metal on the surface also yields similar results.

Thus far I'm very, very pleased. Particularly that the color is "dark charcoal" or "graphite" and very pleasing and the surface finish is suitably rough that one can quickly obtain a grip on the slide -- even if it's less than ideal contact.

Has anyone had any experience with BodyCote's finishes:

Tungsten DLC (Diamond-like Carbon)
Boron Carbide


I'm particularly curious how well BodyCote's finishes adhered to the surfaces of the substrate materials and how rough or smooth were the surfaces prior to applying it.

Obviously, the rougher the surface the greater surface area and while the mechanism(s) are complex and involve much more than surface area (there is surface transition) it should assist.
 
Old 06-02-2004, 08:53 AM   #11
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Particle vapor dispersion coatings are seemingly the future of metal finishes.

The key for the firearms industry will be finding a finisher that can provide consistant quality, yet understands the requirements of dealing with firearms. Mainly, not "working on," or damaging any parts. They'll need to have an FFL to recieve firearms, and it would be good to have a gunsmith on hand to disassemble firearms as they come in.

Hopefully your new source will turn out to be those things and will produce a quality alternative firearms finish. It would be great to have an extremely hard and thin, self lubricating black finish. For now, we're stuck with hard chrome or one of the spray on polymer coatings.

Do you have any hardness specs on the Ti Al Nitride finish? Specifically a rockwell hardness?
 
Old 06-02-2004, 12:24 PM   #12
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Ti Coatings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drummer
Particle vapor dispersion coatings are seemingly the future of metal finishes.

The key for the firearms industry will be finding a finisher that can provide consistant quality, yet understands the requirements of dealing with firearms. Mainly, not "working on," or damaging any parts. They'll need to have an FFL to recieve firearms, and it would be good to have a gunsmith on hand to disassemble firearms as they come in.

Hopefully your new source will turn out to be those things and will produce a quality alternative firearms finish. It would be great to have an extremely hard and thin, self lubricating black finish. For now, we're stuck with hard chrome or one of the spray on polymer coatings.

Do you have any hardness specs on the Ti Al Nitride finish? Specifically a rockwell hardness?
I agree that they represent the leading edge (for now) technology for finishing.

The pieces will be dissassembled locally and shipped to minimize any handling requirements though 'smiths are on hand as they do coatings for several manufacturers, strangely enough. The weird thing is that these two companies do not advertise their finishes at all. Well, there ARE manufactures who utilize vapor deposition coatings, including "TiN". One is Weatherby. The other is Magnum Research. There are others. Kahr uses a vapor deposition coating on one of it's models and SIG was rumored to be using BodyCote's Tungsten DLC (but SIG now states that their M1911 will have a "Nitron" finish). Fabrique Nationale is also investigating vapor deposition coatings, presumably with BodyCote from what I've researched. Not sure what is being coated. Perhaps their new tactical rifle receiver.

Some recommendations: The internals need not be done with the TiAlN with the Zn Phosphate coating. Why? The surface finish will require extensive polishing. For the internals a TiN coating, highly polished would be fantastic. Cylinder & Slide has excellent internals that are TiN finished with extremely smooth surface finishes. I have them in two of my 1911s. Trigger weights range from 4.5 lbs to 3 lbs in 1/2 lb increments. It will save you money and time to simply purchase them from Brownells or order them direct from Cylinder & Slide.

The hardness is off of the Rockwell C scale -- as is diamond. The hardness of diamond is measured on the Vickers scale, HV. Diamond is about 10,000 Vickers. The TiAlN coating is between 3,000 and 4,500 Vickers.

The interesting thing is that this supplier supplies Magnum Research with their TiN coatings. Magnum Research has gone through several venders and has finally settled with the one I'm using. They've been customers for seven (7) years now and are quite satisfied. Apparently, there is much difficulty getting these conformal coatings to adhere to substrates of various geometries. While flat plate maybe easy a sharp or decreasingly small radius may not be. This has been developed and have been a supplier of "at least two" firearm manufacturers. Some companies like Brycoat have chosen tool bits as their specialty. We all know a bit resembles a pistol not one bit. Pun always intended. ops: And there WAS Bodycote which seemed to have a somewhat checkered results with their Boron Carbide coating. Shame.
 
Old 06-21-2004, 04:38 PM   #13
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very interested

Count me in. I am currently deployed but will participate upon my return.

mark
 
Old 06-24-2004, 06:49 AM   #14
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Re: very interested

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sicilydz
Count me in. I am currently deployed but will participate upon my return.

mark
No problem at all!
 
Old 06-24-2004, 08:45 AM   #15
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Will it work on stainless steel?
 
Old 06-24-2004, 10:04 AM   #16
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i'd also be interested to know if it will adhere to stainless. i happen to have magnum researches one off baby eagle in gold titanium, and other than it being ugly as sin the finish has proven to be very hard, and durable, and also seems to require very little lubrication.
 
Old 06-26-2004, 07:06 AM   #17
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Coating Information

Yes, it does adhere to stainless steel. The company who does the work for Magnum Research is the exact same company I'm dealing with. It's also the same company that TiN coats the DPMS AR-15 bolt carriers.

Update: I've negotiated a minimum lot number of ten (10) pistols. We're negotiating the pricing as I type. The so-called "best" finishes are around $220 to $250 and I'd like to be as competitive as possible.

I've put 1,000 rounds thru the TRP and there is no wear to be found on it. The VP of the vendor stated that it should require NO lubrication. To be honest, it does now feel that way - very, very smooth. They have some applications that he cannot divulge to me; that has the exact same coating I have (and am offering to all interested parties) that are weapons-based and the requirement is for NO lubrication.

Needless to say I'm extremely enthusiastic. What I will be doing is contacting gun ranges who rent handguns and have several base 1911s coated and request that no lubrication be applied. I'll ask that detailed digital photos of the underside of the slide and the frame rails be taken every 1,000 rounds. At around 7,000 rounds or so I'd like the pistols to be sent to me for detailed inspection and measurement. My vision is to have five or six to be "abused" with no lubrication. The PhDs and test engineers there are not in the least bit concerned about their coating and gleefully encouraged me to do just that.

We will be shooting with the TRP and as an "informal" experiment with one person lubing all of the 1911s. In my experience, 1911s will not operate flawlessly with little lube and high round counts. It's not a real world situation, but fans of other makes, namely Glock and H&K, will often bring this up for whatever it's worth. We will have the lube applied "very lighty" to shorten the time that we may experience failures. Ammo is Winchester White Box 230 grain RN. All will use Wilson 47D mags or whatever mags have proven reliable with the pistols. All pistols were eagerly described as "reliable" or "very reliable" prior to the experiment.

I'll post the results.
 
Old 07-01-2004, 05:31 PM   #18
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Please Keep Us Updated

Chui,

I'm sure that I'm like many others in asking that you keep us up to date on the progress with the TiAlN process/finish.

I know that I would like to know not only the wear resistence of the "final" finish process, but also the corrosion resistence this new finish process can provide. Should it prove equal to or better than HC, than I would consider it for future refinish projects.

Of course, to many of us, cost is not a "no concern" issue, so if the prospective per unit/part cost ballpark can be provided, it would be of great assistance.

Thanks, for all that you(and others) have posted on this topic and keep it coming!
 
Old 07-01-2004, 07:36 PM   #19
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over the past several years with my pistol the finish has proven very durable, i give it a slight edge to hardchrome for wear resistance, and have had zero problems with corrosion.
 
Old 07-02-2004, 05:27 PM   #20
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Can the titanium nitride be applied to aluminum?
 
Old 07-02-2004, 06:53 PM   #21
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Corrosion Resistance

It cannot be applied to Aluminum as the temperature in which it is applied is too high for Aluminum alloys. Tungsten DLC (BodyCote) would be the (now) coating for that application -- after it has been hard anodized.

Corrosion resistance is far better than hard Chrome as Chrome is merely corrosion resistant. Titanium Aluminum Nitride is impervious to salt water spray and salt water immersion.

I recall that nitrocarburization (Tennifer, Hostile Environment, Melonite) is 99% salt water corrosion resistant. TiAlN is 100% salt water corrosion resistant. TiAlN exceeds the hardness of the nitrocarburized surface as well. Of course, the best finish would be a nitrocarburized frame and slide (plus extractor, slide stop, safety levers and grip safety) and then have TiAlN coating applied. Springfield? Colt? Kimber? Wilson? Les Baer? Is anyone listening? I guess they are content since the majority of us apparently are. I'm sure SIG (BodyCote) or H&K (Hostile Environment/Tennifer) will lead the way...
 
Old 07-02-2004, 07:43 PM   #22
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Thanks Chui

The info on this topic has been very educational.

Now all we have to do is to find a company that will do nitocarburization and then send that off to have TiAlN performed on the requisite parts, as named.

Time will tell....
 
Old 07-03-2004, 06:05 AM   #23
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Nitrocarburization + PVD = Ultimate Coating

You're correct, nvrquit, but all is not quite that simple. There was one US-based company that offered Melonite, but the temperatures exceeded the temper of 4140, 4340 and 416R (the common 1911 materials). That could be handled by retempering, but I was not satisfied with warpage concerns as described by the vendor. Perhaps I should purchase some Essex frames, measure before and after and cut and prepare the frames to study under a microscope. It WILL happen and two PVD vendors are "on the same page" as I am... But it won't happen tomorrow as the firearm industry is notoriously slow to adopt new methodologies for whatever reasons. For example, PVD coatings are far, far superior to any of the otherwise nice chemical and spray and bake coatings. SIG has seen the light ["Nitron" is Tungsten DLC] as has Kahr [BodyCote]and Magnum Research [MMI] as well as the DPMS AR-15 TiN bolt carrier and firing pin [MMI].

Yes, it's expensive in the manner it's being offered to you and I at the moment, but if YOU and I DEMAND such finishes then companies like MMI and BodyCote will have facilities within the plants of the mainstream mass producers and offer the service at much more reasonable rates to the semi-custom and custom manufacturers. But few have the engineering background to adequately explore the opportunities and the majority simply follow... so the industry is more than happy to apply GunKote (albeit, under different tradenames with small additions of Teflon) and charge a premium for it.

Tungsten DLC is far superior than any conventional coating if applied correctly.

Titanium Aluminum Nitride is superior to Tungsten DLC as a weapon coating.


Much of the cost is involved in the preparation of the sample and no shortcuts can be taken lest we find intermittent adherence.

For four hundred dollars ($400) -- plus warranty -- one will have a coating that does not require lubing. There is a DoD SBIR for just such a coating and TiAlN (the exact coating offered here) has been submitted. There has been significant increases in the amount of rounds a mini-gun can be fired without lube with TiAlN-coated components -- "from approximatley 60,000 rounds to just over 350,000 rounds."

I'll have test specimen available to lend to local gun stores for rental where there will be NO lube applied at all and the number or rounds and failures will be recorded and detailed analysis (wear measurements) taken. This is MY experiment, more or less, as I'm a Mechanical Engineer by training. Similar analyses have been done and is being done by parties who will, under no circumstances share the results for reason of National Security.

So, it isn't cheap -- nor is it inexpensive, but it IS the best available coating in terms of:

wear resistance,
corrosion resistance,
adherence,
hardness and
appearance (personal tastes may vary).


I'm/we're taking orders and will have prices for some individual components like a complete slide assembly very soon.

Please contact me directly:

Kevin Reed
E-mail(s): kreed2@ford.com and itrelise@aol.com (send e-mail to both)
Phone (cell): (248) 470-7366

A hearty thanks for all who've found this interesting and have had the patience to read all of this. I hope this assists even those who are not able to take advantage of this service at this time as many claim that they have the "ultimate" finish when, in fact, they are not being truthful. Perhaps they are unaware; but they will be very shortly.

U're correct, nvrquit, time will tell...
 
Old 07-03-2004, 01:20 PM   #24
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Excellent Reply Post...

Chui,

As the subject title says(at least IMO), an excellent reply post to my last previous statement.

As you stated and as I suspected, it will not be relatively quick to the scene, not will it be as "cost effective" as E-Nickel or HC. However, if what you have described is true(and I have no currently available info to indicate otherwise), it will be the firearms finish that many(including myself) have patiently waited tbecoem available.

I can only hope that TiAlN doesn't follow the same path BC(not Black Chrome) did, as that was a tease in a very big way.

Info requests, as to the order taking, will be forwarded to the provided address(es). Again, many thanks for your efforts and posts here.
 
Old 07-04-2004, 01:15 AM   #25
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Intersted in re-finishing old Colt

Chui,
I am excited to hear about this coating! I have a circa 1960's Colt Government Model I'd like refinished. It has some minor blemishes in the factory blueing. Will this coating compensate for minor scratches and pitting? Also, let me know how shpping and payment is accomplished.

Thanks,

William
 
Old 07-04-2004, 08:44 AM   #26
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Chui,

Excellent post. The manner in which you approached this topic certainly reflects your engineering background. Well done.

I have an aluminum-framed Kimber Ultra CDP II that I'd like to have coated all black (or as close to black as possible). The frame is anodized black and the slide is stainless (in the white). Can your vendor do a dual-coating? I believe you stated that Tungsten DLC is the best aluminum coating.

Has your vendor tested the durability of contact surfaces with these two coatings? Are they compatable?

You mantioned costs of $250 and $400. Has your vendor settled on a price yet?

Thanks
 
Old 07-04-2004, 07:04 PM   #27
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seatown7, you need to have your pistol polished before the application of the Titanium as it will show absolutely any imperfection.
 
Old 07-07-2004, 01:00 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lefty o
seatown7, you need to have your pistol polished before the application of the Titanium as it will show absolutely any imperfection.
Yes, PVD coatings are conformal in that they will conform to the surface finish of the treated material. Polishing the sides of the frame and having a relatively coarse finish on top would look interesting.
 
Old 07-18-2004, 04:11 AM   #29
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Wonderful Results with NO Lubrication

Well, I finally have finished the 1,000 rounds of shooting --- with no lubrication (at all!) between the slide and frame. Oddly, there was no failures of any sort and there is no observable wear, either. The action is oh, so smooth (actually, it has been for a while -- initally, the magazine would not fully drop out of the stock after hitting the magazine release then one day, Presto!, it worked).

So now I'm having my Wilson Combat CQB bead blasted to be sent.
 
Old 07-23-2004, 01:19 PM   #30
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I am interested in this finish. What is the cost for a 1911? Also what is your turnaround time going to be. Are their any negatives with this finish?
 
Old 07-25-2004, 04:47 PM   #31
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TiAlN Particulars

Quote:
Originally Posted by 355sigfan
I am interested in this finish. What is the cost for a 1911? Also what is your turnaround time going to be. Are their any negatives with this finish?
Easy question first:

Any drawbacks?

None that I can determine as of yet. It has thus far adhered extremely well and has shown no wear.

Turnaround time?

We are committed to ten pieces at a time. We don't have ten persons ready to ship their pistols at this time. If required, I'd ship two (2) and I have a close friend who'd also ship one (1). There are two others who'd ship one (1) each after some modifications to their 1911s. I also have a gentleman from Alaska who is prepared to ship his yesterday so we only have five at this time. Once we confirm ten (10) I'll request that they be shipped. They'll then be prepped [bead blasted, scribed (i.e., grip safety, mainspring housing, magwell, extractor, ejector, external safety, slide release) and lightly lubed] then shipped. It took approximately four weeks for them to return my TRP. I'll be discussing those particulars this week. Look for my post shortly.
 
Old 07-27-2004, 04:58 PM   #32
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Damn, talk about price mark up for the coating. This stuff is not expensive and is not rocket science to apply "if" the coater knows their stuff. The coater I've used for my projects charged me $50 for this process on long guns, it should be considerably less for a pistol. Machine tooling and drill bits cost approximately $.50 - $5 for this process. The savings for volume runs of 500+ pieces is not drastic.

Considering most major cities in the country have several people offering these and other vapor coatings, take them a socket from a tool set and have them coat it for a few bucks as a sample. If it turns out good with the correct coverage and color desired have them do your gun. The problem is many of the facilities are busy and doing single pieces can put you in a hurry up and wait position. They typically do 500 - 10,000 pieces in a run. Be up front with them about the color you're after so they can adjust the process.

There are application methods that allow vapor coatings to be applied at lower temperatures for metals like aluminum.
 
Old 07-28-2004, 06:25 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by double down
Damn, talk about price mark up for the coating. This stuff is not expensive and is not rocket science to apply "if" the coater knows their stuff. The coater I've used for my projects charged me $50 for this process on long guns, it should be considerably less for a pistol. Machine tooling and drill bits cost approximately $.50 - $5 for this process. The savings for volume runs of 500+ pieces is not drastic.

Considering most major cities in the country have several people offering these and other vapor coatings, take them a socket from a tool set and have them coat it for a few bucks as a sample. If it turns out good with the correct coverage and color desired have them do your gun. The problem is many of the facilities are busy and doing single pieces can put you in a hurry up and wait position. They typically do 500 - 10,000 pieces in a run. Be up front with them about the color you're after so they can adjust the process.

There are application methods that allow vapor coatings to be applied at lower temperatures for metals like aluminum.
Sorry, doubledown, but I've found NO one who would even speak with me about being able to coat something even remotely resembling a weapon. There was only one other company that was willing to coat them with a minimum lot of eight, but they had no experience with coating a pistol with all of the small components; no gunsmith on hand. Geometry is absolutely critical - assuming you wish to have consistent coverage and thickness...

Yes, you're correct, "anyone" can promise, but who can deliver? Have they any experience coating a pistol (with all of the components)? Will they stand behind their work? I backed out from the one other CA company due to their lack of experience and the project engineer wasn't "firearm knowledgeable" at all. Why would I send him MY pistol to experiment on? And I surely could not offer the services to others with a sample of one (and a cost of 50% higher + I had to bead blast it, disassemble and reassemble it).

If you wish to try another company please do so and report back your results/findings. I know it's not nearly as simple as you claim and I live in the Machining/Coating/Processing center of the US - the Detroit Metro Area - and NO ONE would touch it; partly due to prep work, geometry and tooling (none are trivial) and then there is that thing called VOLUME. Yes, I can obtain blueing, parkerization, "DiamondKote", hard anodization and a few other proprietary coatings here and there is even a company that can perform gas nitrocarburization ("tennifer" to the masses). Nice place I live, no?

Who did you use? Where are they located? HOw was your results?

But make no mistake about it, there is nothing INexpensive about PVD coating. I've researched what is required, how it's done, areas of concern and even who supplies the machinery and what does the machinery cost. I wish you were correct.

As far as coating aluminum is concerned one cannot have "TiN" coating it as the application temperature is too high. If you must coat aluminum look to SIGARMS and their classic pistols and BodyCote. They (BodyCote) may have something for you with their Tungsten Diamond-like Carbon, but good luck trying to obtain their services. Companies thrive on volume. Period. I had to really negotiate to get the minimum lot number to only 10 - especially with the asking price. They'd much prefer 30. I don't blame them, but how many can spend 1/2 the cost of a new pistol to have it coated? You may eventually do so, but the raw numbers do not fully support 50 pistols per month like clockwork. The answer lies in obtaining contracts/selling PVD machinery to the manufacturers.

SIGARMS
Kahr
Magnum Research
Weatherby


Already offer PVD coatings on their firearms. Others are investigating.
 
Old 07-28-2004, 07:32 AM   #34
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I guess I'm just fortunate to live in a state (Minnesota) with a lot of coaters. I guess I'm also fortunate to understand a little bit more about the specialty coating industry than most people.

As with any industry you'll find good and bad. I'm fairly confident you haven't contacted every coater in every location or better yet tried their services. You're going to find places that don't want small quantities and some places don't want to work on firearm components, this doesn't mean they cannot successfully apply the coating. I'm simply suggesting people investigate this for themselves and eliminate potential pitfalls and expense by going directly to the source which they may very well find locally. Please note I suggested they get a sample done before turning over their blaster.

For those of you intrested in doing your own research a good place to start is www.thomasregisterdirectory.com/categor ... tings.html . Titanium Nitride, TiN, TiCN, TiAIN, Alpha & CrN PVD Coatings are applied to Cutting Tools, Punches, Dies, Form Rails, Injection Molds, Wear Parts, & Medical Components to reduce wear & prolong tool life. This should give you some more options to track down a coater in your area. You can also try searching some of those wierd looking names in google.
 
Old 07-28-2004, 07:43 AM   #35
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Michigan, USA
Posts: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by double down
As with any industry you'll find good and bad. I'm fairly confident you haven't contacted every coater in every location or better yet tried their services. You're going to find places that don't want small quantities and some places don't want to work on firearm components, this doesn't mean they cannot successfully apply the coating. I'm simply suggesting people investigate this for themselves and eliminate potential pitfalls and expense by going directly to the source which they may very well find locally. Please note I suggested they get a sample done before turning over their blaster.

For those of you intrested in doing your own research a good place to start is www.thomasregisterdirectory.com/categor ... tings.html . Titanium Nitride, TiN, TiCN, TiAIN, Alpha & CrN PVD Coatings are applied to Cutting Tools, Punches, Dies, Form Rails, Injection Molds, Wear Parts, & Medical Components to reduce wear & prolong tool life. This should give you some more options to track down a coater in your area. You can also try searching some of those wierd looking names in google.
Been there, done that. Contacted about 1/2 of those listed in the registry. I've not simply dreamed up a contact and blindly followed. By all means investigate. We're all humans and should use our cerebral cortex. That's how I've found what I've found thus far.

Again, who did you use, what was coated and what were the results?
 
Old 07-29-2004, 01:56 PM   #36
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 2
Chui,
I will like to refinish my P7M8, will they do it, or the 1911 only?
 
Old 07-29-2004, 03:51 PM   #37
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Michigan, USA
Posts: 147
P7M8

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle Strike
Chui,
I will like to refinish my P7M8, will they do it, or the 1911 only?
Well, for the moment I've limited the selection to 1911s for two reasons:

a) Knowing a gunsmith that knows P7s.
b) Trying to keep the complexity to a minimum as they really are troubled with even my request for a minimum lot of 10. They preferred 30.

I know the owner now and I've encouraged him to purchase a P7M8. I also stated to him that I'd love to coat it and if he purchased one of the Anniversary Editions it would be "tennifered"/"melonited"/gas nitrocarburized and that he'd have the best of all worlds.

I'm not sure what the volumes could possibly be for the P7. I was considering Walter E. Birdsong's Black T (only $160) down in Mississippi. I think the name of the company is Walter E. Birdsong & Associates.

But I will say this.

If the volume is there I'm okay with it and so will MMI.
 
Old 08-03-2004, 12:33 AM   #38
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8
I am very interested, count me in. Can they also coat the barrel?
 
Old 08-03-2004, 01:46 PM   #39
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Michigan, USA
Posts: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkuhne
I am very interested, count me in. Can they also coat the barrel?
The exterior of the barrel can be done, but I don't see much to be gained by it to be honest.

P.S.

I have to go home for about a month [illness in family] so anyone who is interested in shipping a pistol to The Accurizer either give Marianne Carniak a phone call [(248) 528-1552] or call me on my cell phone [(248) 470-7366 - my name is Kevin Reed]. I will not have access to the e-mail listed above.
 
Old 08-03-2004, 07:24 PM   #40
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 59
I Will Follow This Post...

...very closely.

While I don't have any 1911 model pistols(gasp ), I'll wait and read how the results and histroy tracks for those that have the TiAlN performed.

Perhaps in the future, the coating will become available for more pistol models/types.

Chui,
Best wishes to you for those in your family currently in need. Here's hoping for speedy and painless recovery.
 
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