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Old 04-16-2001, 11:08 PM   #1
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seems like a shortage of topics in this sub-forum!

what 10mm factory loads are the most powerful?
 
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Old 04-17-2001, 08:36 PM   #2
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I have found the Norma and Kaswer 10mm magnum loads to have the highest power factors. The Kaswer 170gr grabber averages
1310fps from my G20 on my Oehler model 35p.
Corbon also makes a 180gr SP hunting load that averages 1285fps from my G20.

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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: David DiFabio on 2001-04-17 21:36 ]</font>
 
Old 04-25-2001, 04:32 AM   #3
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I chronoed some of the CorBon 200 gr. "Penetrators" at just shy of 1200 fps (can't remember the exact range since it was a year ago, but all were over the advertised 1150) didn't get a chance to try any with the 6" bbl but I wish i had. Unfortunatly the CorBon 185 and 200 gr are a LSP and FMJ respectively, so they are not suitable for defense usage, but should be great for hunting.

I'm seeing good numbers from Pro Load .357 sig 125 gr. JHPs from my G32, so i might try some of that in 10mm.

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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Desert Dog on 2001-04-25 06:25 ]</font>
 
Old 05-27-2001, 12:00 PM   #4
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David DiFabio wrote:

Quote:
I have found the Norma and Kaswer 10mm magnum loads to have the highest power factors. The Kaswer 170gr grabber averages 1310fps from my G20 on my Oehler model 35p. Corbon also makes a 180gr SP hunting load that averages 1285fps from my G20.
Careful on that "magnum" designation, David… as with +P designations in anything other than .38 Special, 9 X 19mm and .45 ACP¹, it is strictly marketing hype.

I concur on the Norma 170-grain PC… a helluva round which I am flat out of, unfortunately… but demonstrably the highest power factor of any (reputable) factory 10mm round is the Winchester 175-grain STHP.

In his Combat Handgunnery - Third Edition from DBI Books, the estimable Chuck Karwan, arguably the best technical writer in the gunzines over the past several decades, notes that the only stock handgun/factory cartridge combination with greater gross "potential energy" than the Model 20 Glock and 15 + 1 rounds of WW 175-grain STHP, is the .50 AE Desert Eagle… and which one would you care to port on a regular basis? :wink:

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¹.- O, all right, .257 Roberts, as well, if you must!
 
Old 05-27-2001, 01:04 PM   #5
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I used the title 10mm magnum as it is printed directly on the side of the Kaswer box, I know full well that it is all subjective but Kaswer did make two seperate rounds the 10mm 175gr JHP circa 1987 and the 10mm magnum Law Grabber 170gr. circa 1994.
I agree with Chuck Karwan and I have always liked his writing and I have found his articles to be excellent.
Although for a time when I lived in Panama I carried a 3" Freedom arms .454 Casull US Marshall pistol with a Glock G17 and I felt well armed without being weighed down by the man portable Desert Eagle....
 
Old 05-28-2001, 08:11 AM   #6
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David DiFabio wrote:
Quote:
I used the title 10mm magnum as it is printed directly on the side of the Kaswer box, I know full well that it is all subjective but Kaswer did make two seperate rounds the 10mm 175gr JHP circa 1987 and the 10mm magnum Law Grabber 170gr. circa 1994.
Bill "mades his bones" at Second Chance around that time, and probably fell a bit under the influence of Peter Pi as far as product hype… virtually everything from CorBon is marketed as "+P" whether or not there's a SAAMI specification for it… and I suspect that's where the "10mm Magnum" originated.

The "Law Grabbers" line of anti-personnel ammo was a terrible name… I always told him it should have been more appropriately called "Felon-Wackers," but he wanted to associate it with his successful "Pin Grabbers" stuff.

Not surprisingly, he was the guy Jim Cirillo turned to in the production of his own rounds, given the similarity of concept.


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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dean Speir on 2001-05-28 09:13 ]</font>
 
Old 05-29-2001, 08:58 AM   #7
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There actually WAS a 10mm magnum cartridge, it pretty much died almost instantly though. It used lenghened 10mm brass to give true .41 Magnum max-power ballistics.

The following factory loads can be considered "full power":


Cor-Bon 135gr JHP@1400 FPS, 150gr JHP @ 1325 FPS, 165gr JHP @ 1250 FPS, 180gr JSP @ 1320 FPS, 200gr Penetrator @ 1200 FPS
Federal Hi-Shok 155gr JHP @ 1330 FPS
Georgia Arms 155gr JHP @ 1375 FPS, 180gr JHP @ 1180 FPS
Hornady XTP-Full 180gr JHP @ 1150 FPS
Pro Load 135gr Nosler JHP @ 1440 FPS, 155gr Gold Dot @1350 FPS, 180gr JHP @ 1200 FPS
Triton Quik-Shok 155gr @ 1400 FPS
Winchester Super-X 175gr STHP @ 1290 FPS

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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: CastleBravo on 2001-05-30 14:13 ]</font>
 
Old 05-29-2001, 03:33 PM   #8
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CastleBravo wrote:
Quote:
There actually WAS a 10mm magnum cartridge…
Are you speaking of the round the late Harry Stanford envisioned for his "AutoMag II?"

Quote:
The following factory loads can be considered "full power":
That listing is far from complete.
 
Old 05-29-2001, 04:39 PM   #9
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Quote:
Dean Speir wrote, That listing is far from complete.
_____________________________________________
Dean,
Please share the complete listing with us so that we too can be as informed and knowledgable as you are on 10mm ammunition specifications and history?

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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: David DiFabio on 2001-05-29 17:40 ]</font>
 
Old 05-29-2001, 06:44 PM   #10
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An old box of Norma that I have (20rnds) lists a 200 grain Truncated Cone Full Jacket (believe the origional Bren 10 load) at 1200 fps and 635 ft. lbs. The ref. no. 11001 is on the box with this statement: Intended for use in firearms that have been proof load tested at pressures in exess of 53,300 psi and having a valid prooof mark on the firearm. The ammunition contained herein if factory loaded to develop a mean pressure of 37,000 psi with a maximum pressure of 44,400 psi plus or minus industry tolerances. :grin: Mike
 
Old 05-30-2001, 10:37 AM   #11
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Randall_1611 wrote:
Quote:
An old box of Norma that I have (20rnds) lists a 200 grain Truncated Cone Full Jacket (believe the origional Bren 10 load) at 1200 fps and 635 ft. lbs.
There ya go, Mike… that's one of them, and David knew that one, as well as the #1102 Norma 170-grain PC ("power cavity" or "pointe creuse"). And yes, that was the original Bren Ten round developed by Norma after SuperVel and Hornady passed on it… at various times in the bizarre development of the pistol, Dornaus & Dixon's intermittant news releases sent to their "investors" cited both as producers of the round.

Then there's the Hornady, PMC and Remington (R10MM1) 170-grain JHPs, all of which followed the Norma projectile weight and nominal velocities.

The "whimp factor" took hold in late '88 when the FBI decreed that their ideal anti-personnel round would be 180-grains @ 950 fps nominal, and the munitions-makers, with the exception of Norma, dropped their 170-grainers. (Both Remington, with the R10MM4 and R10MM3, and Hornady, with the #9126 and #9127, did for a while offer two editions in that weight: respectively the "LE-version" and the full-power one.)
 
Old 05-30-2001, 12:43 PM   #12
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10mm factory ammo that cooks. . . the Federal 155gr jhp cooks @ 1325fps from my G20. The 175gr STHP was skipping along @ 1240fps from the G20 and 1165fps from my G29.

I haven't chronoed Georgia Arms and ProLoad ammo from my 10mms, but they seem to have a good cook going to them also. Over on glocktalk.com, one of the 10 Ring (10mm afcionados there) chronoed the 155gr Georgia Arms at 1355fps.

I have 20 rounds of the 170gr Norma jhps sitting around. I recall that their accuracy was/is terrible and I recall variances of 80fps with the few boxes I actually chronoed.

Ya finger with a good amount of PowerPistol and lighter bullets the 10mm will just beller along nicely!

Derek
 
Old 05-30-2001, 01:23 PM   #13
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Dean,

How about you actually tell us which ones I missed that are available now? I just listed the ones that I knew about that are still made. If there are others I'd like to try 'em.

The 10mm Magnum was chamered in IAI/AMT Automag IV guns. The ballistics are no joke, 200gr@1500+ FPS.

http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt10mag.htm

Starline even still makes brass for it.

http://www.starlinebrass.com/descriptions.html
 
Old 05-30-2001, 02:08 PM   #14
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I was over on Ace Custom pistols website and noticed that Mr. Hindman has the following high pressure loads coming out:
Quote:
Ace Custom 45s Inc. & Texas Ammunition Co, will be introducing 3 new 10 mm "EXPRESS" loads for 10 mm fans at the 2001 NRA Show in Kansas City, MO - May 18th-20th. Our booth # is 208 please stop by and visit us.

The new "EXPRESS LOADS are as follows: ( available June 2001)

200 gr, FMJ FT 10 mm "EXPRESS" @ 1250 fps 694 ft. lbs!

165 gr, JHP 10 mm " EXPRESS" @ 1350 fps 668 ft, lbs!

135 gr. JHP 10 mm " EXPRESS" @ 1450 fps. 630 ft. lbs !


The original "NORMA" 10 mm LOADS were as follows:

200 gr. FMJ FT,. @ 1200 fps

170 gr, JHP @ 1300 fps.
 
Old 05-31-2001, 12:53 PM   #15
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You know, that 10mm Express stuff ain't too hot, at least not for the price that'll be most likley charged to the consumer. If you cook your own loads, those numbers are easily attainable.

Figure 135gr jhp and 10.5+grs of Power Pistol mag primer will hit 1475fps from the G20.

With AA#9 you can hit the 200gr/165gr loading of the 10mm Express. Figure 1400fps can be touched with a 155gr 10mm loading and AA#9.

It's just too bad that rather then putting a name, most likely proprietary just like the .45S, Ace couldn't simply load 10mm up to its performance level.

Derek
 
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