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Old 12-22-2012, 10:37 AM   #1
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.454 casull semi auto

Hi, I'm new here. This will be my second post. I have an idea bouncing around in my head for a semi automatic pistol chambered in. 454 casull. If you know where I got the idea, that makes you as big a nerd as I am. I think it would have some practical applications. For one thing, the recoil, while remaining quite stout, would be somewhat less than a revolver. You would also get a capacity advantage. I was thinking about making it work sort of like an automag. It would have a slide. In theory, this would allow for lighter recoil springs, while keeping dust, dirt, ice, and other nasty things from mucking up the works. Keep in mind that I'm not any sort of engineer. I've worked with a gunsmith, but I am not one. I realize that it would be heavy (wouldn't you want a .454 to be? ) and have a large grip. Some people just can't shoot certain guns. Such is life. So, to sum up, I'm thinking of a recoil-operated semi auto with a rotating bolt, a reciprocating barrel, and a slide/bolt carrier. Is there any reason that this just cannot possibly work? I'm hoping that some more knowledgeable person will come along and save me from a waste of resources. I don't need a large, gun-like paperweight.

Last edited by judge sam; 12-22-2012 at 10:41 AM.
 
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Old 12-22-2012, 03:24 PM   #2
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Have you ever designd an auto loader magazine feeding rimed cartridges?
 
Old 12-22-2012, 04:09 PM   #3
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Question

No, but coonan did. I could do it like that.
 
Old 12-22-2012, 06:56 PM   #4
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What platform were you planning on using?
 
Old 12-22-2012, 09:09 PM   #5
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Not sure what you're asking. I'm not talking about building it from any existing gun. I don't think there is anything in existence I could build it from.
 
Old 12-23-2012, 02:21 AM   #6
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Take a look at the 460 Rowland for substantial power if that is what you are looking for.

The AMU did have the 1911 setup for bulls-eye shooting using the .38Spl wadcutter.
S&W had one that shot the .38Spl wadcutter, also
 
Old 12-23-2012, 08:04 AM   #7
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I'm sorry Sam, I might have misjudged your thread. I thought you might have been buildong something. Yes Danf, S&W did make a 38spl semi auto, I wanted one for a while back in the day, too rare for me and I'm not a good enough shot to need a target pistol. Joy Noel Y'all.
 
Old 12-23-2012, 08:28 AM   #8
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Dan, I'm not just looking for more power. I'm one of those people who get an idea stuck in their head and can't get rid of it until they figure put it can't be done, or try it successfully. I was really kind of hoping that someone would come along with a reason it can't be done. "Nobody's ever done it "is not a valid reason. As far as the 460 Rowland goes, I think it's yet another example of trying to make a piece of equipment do something it was never intended to do. George, if you know of anything I could build it on, let me know. Then it would be too easy, and I could let it go. Seriously, he'p me George.
 
Old 01-15-2013, 09:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George M. View Post
Have you ever designd an auto loader magazine feeding rimed cartridges?
Shouldn't be insurmountable; lots of semis made to eat .22LR... aren't there also some box mag semi rifles using the 7.62 X 54R Russian round?

I s'pose the thing to watch for is that as the mags get loaded, the rim of the round being inserted doesn't somehow get behind the one under it, which'd cause a jam.

Also, the 'shoe' in the bottom of my Ruger mags seems to have a lot of ability to 'wiggle' or 'float', so that it adjusts for the extra size on the rear of a .22LR cartridge as the mag goes from full to empty; either a feature like that, or maybe a curved magazine would be in order.

Now, while we're on the rimmed round idea, how 'bout scaling up that Ruger Standard to take 45/70!

-Bill

Last edited by thecarfarmer; 01-15-2013 at 10:05 PM.
 
Old 01-17-2013, 09:35 AM   #10
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It's not insurmountable. Like I said, it has already been done. The coonan is a .357 magnum pistol that is based on the 1911. The angle of the magazine won't allow the rims to overlap. The top has lips that go behind the case head to keep it from catching on anything.
 
Old 01-19-2013, 08:15 PM   #11
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Back in the 60's, I watched Lee Juras struggle with his .44 auto mag. (We called it the auto jammer). There are several 'unseen' problems using your sort of combination. Recoil is the main one...not for the shooter, but rather the gun itself. The automags beat themselves to death. The .454 with full loads will definitely batter the gun considerably. The recoil spring would have to be very stout, which will require a 'good man' to manually pull back the slide for loading. The length of the round is not a terribly important factor, but it will come into play. The rimmed case will mean the chamber walls will need to be thicker than normal (adding weight). It's doable...but at great cost and frustration. You'd be better off getting married...less cost and less frustration.
 
Old 01-20-2013, 02:30 AM   #12
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The design I have in mind (and nowhere else yet) has a reciprocating barrel that will push on the slide/bolt carrier. The slide's inertia will carry it back, unlocking the bolt, ejecting the case, and picking up the next round. It's a little bit different from the automag. The barrel will have to displace more weight. The barrel will have the strongest return spring I can fit behind it. These two things mean that the slide return spring won't have to be as strong as it would have to be on an automag type design. At least that's the theory. As far as accelerated wear goes, that's the price you pay for a powerful cartridge. The reason I'm considering a recoil operated system is to improve the disadvantages of the desert eagle design. My design would be able to fire cast bullets, without having to worry about clogged gas ports. I could also provide lighter springs to allow the use of 45lc ammunition. That's the beauty of rimmed cartridges. Case length isn't critical. As for the weight issue, wouldn't you want a 454 casull to be heavy? I would. Those guys with redhawk Alaskans in that caliber must really like pain. As far as the strength to cock it, this would definitely be a big guy's gun. This would just be for me, and I'm a big guy. I don't plan on selling them. I don't think it would sell, at least not in that caliber. Cost will be materials and time. Time is in short supply, so it may take quite some time. I wouldn't make it until January of 2017 anyway, if you catch my drift.

Last edited by judge sam; 01-20-2013 at 03:00 AM.
 
Old 01-20-2013, 02:55 AM   #13
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I wonder how much actual recoil the 454 has. It has a lot of perceived recoil, I know. However, it's usually chambered in revolvers that are designed with the bore axis far above the hand, creating a lot of torque. A full power 44mag is torture in a blackhawk, bearable in a redhawk, but quite pleasant in a desert eagle, which, by the way, is not that heavy.
 
Old 03-02-2013, 12:41 AM   #14
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lol judge, that would be an awesome gun to have in real life.

alucard's colt based auto loader is about 13.22lbs, so it definitely has to be heavy. With that ridiculous recoil on a non-ported chamber, you'll need to design something to release all that pressure.

Your action sounds like that of a long-stroke of a AK, but to be able to actually push a heavy slider back while keeping the design is to implement a flat passageway at the side paralleled to the barrel that leads to a chamber at the back and have the air expand it. Make it vented to avoid excess pressure.

You'll probably want it made with titanium carbide lol

Last edited by scoutzknivez; 03-02-2013 at 01:14 AM.
 
Old 03-14-2013, 12:44 AM   #15
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The AK47 is a long stroke gas piston system. My design is recoil operated. I have no intention of making it look like the gun from the show. Even if I did, it wouldn't weigh that much. Ported chamber? The barrel can handle the pressure. The safety concern is to keep the gun in battery long enough for the pressure to drop to a safe level. The recoil operated turnbolt would accomplish that. Venting gasses out the side of the gun at the chamber would not only seriously decrease your muzzle velocity, thereby defeating the purpose of the big cartridge, but it would mean that, each time the gun is fired, a high-pressure jet of scalding hot gasses would shoot out of the side of the gun, and your brass,would have a hole in it. You need to go to the person that told you about "ported Chambers" and punch them in the forehead for me. There is not now, nor has there ever been a such thing.
 
Old 11-28-2013, 10:08 PM   #16
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The LAR Grizzly could be modified to take the .454.

One would have to modify the magazines of the .44 mag. model to accept the Casull cartridges.

J. Huntington has modified one of my MK I Grizzlies to take .475 Wildey cartridges and said the hardest part was the magazine work.

He found some one to do the micro-welding necessary to modify the mags with out destroying them.
 
Old 12-01-2013, 06:49 AM   #17
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There are a couple of stumbling blocks.

One is that the Casull...having such a large capacity case...will require a slow burning powder to achieve its potential as well as a fairly long barrel...something on the order of 7.5-8 inches. Slow powders don't generally do well with typical locked breech operation. That would necessitate a rotating bolt and gas operation.

Two...In short, the thing would be massive and not very practical to tote around. Not sure if the cool factor and "First Kid on the Block" to have one would be worth the effort and expense.
 
Old 12-02-2013, 10:31 AM   #18
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The pistol was close to being a reality. I then lost contact with the machinist. I hope he's alright.

The final design comes in at roughly the same weight as a desert eagle. I didn't design it as a CCW. I.designed it as a backup (or primary) for hunting things that can eat you. It will have a rotating bolt and a reciprocating barrel. I went with this for a few reasons. One was reliability. Gas ports can clog. Two, simplicity. Less crap to maintain and less to mess up. Three, compatibility with a wide range of loads. Gas operated pistols work with a narrow range of loads. The desert eagle .44 is a prime example. It requires very hot loads to function reliably. The only way around this is an adjustable gas system (a la wldey. Didn't work so well).Also, too slow a powder can cause problems. Garand shooters know what I'm talking about. Four, compatibility with cast bullets. Everybody knows that cast bullets in gas pistols is a no no. Five, ability to use 45 lc. Swap out a spring, you're good to go. There's no way to do this in a gas gun. Even if you could, most LC ammunition is loaded with a cast bullet.
 
Old 12-03-2013, 02:17 AM   #19
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Just my 2% of a buck...

If you can get ti to fly...IF...you can, it'll be expensive if you intend to market it. It'll also have a very limited market/narrow niche.

I don't think it'll fly at the same weight/mass as the Desert Eagle, but I could be wrong.

The cost of the pistol in such a small market...for a "What If/Just in Case" solution...when there are several DA and SA revolvers available chambered for the Casull...could scuttle it from Jump Street.

If you just want to make one for yourself, that's a different matter, of course. Good luck to you, and sincere wishes for resounding success.
 
Old 12-06-2013, 07:50 PM   #20
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When you get into prototype stage, gold plate it, put a gold chain on it and name the "Bad boyz bad azz gat"

Find some rapper to demo it, and some nattering talking head like Geraldo rivera to denounce it. You will be rolling in bucks. Won't matter whether it works or not.

"niggaz got a fo-five-fo

niggaz got a fo-five-fo"..........................................
 
Old 12-11-2013, 03:20 PM   #21
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I just want to make one for myself. If it works out, it can be scaled down to other calibers. It would be cheaper to produce than a desert eagle.
 
Old 01-31-2014, 06:54 PM   #22
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I would like to see both the Joshua and the Jackal (a 454 casull auto and a 10mm long slide for those of you who don't know the reference) come into creation. If you are still interested I have access to a machine shop and might be able to help you out.
 
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