|07-16-2007, 05:43 PM||#1|
Join Date: Jul 2007
Kahr customer service..
First off, I'm new here, so hello all. Let me jump right in and get started.
I've read and heard good things about Kahr's customer service, and when my CW40 magazine was spewing rounds into my mag pouch, I did a little research. Seems that I'm not the only one with this issue, so I emailed Kahr service. Here's what I got in reply:
"Once a round is in the magazine, it does not take much to move it out. Keep in mind, the magazine is designed to exit the rounds freely. Is it possible something is bumping the bullet end of the mag causing the rounds to depart the mag? I am not sure there is much we can do at this point.
Bear in mind that I've had the CW40 for about 3 weeks and have put roughly 300 rounds through it. The first 80 rounds had several failures to feed, but after that it was fine. I put 150 rounds through it Sunday without a hitch. But the mag thing bugs me, a lot. I've owned plenty of semiautos, S&W, Ruger, a cheapo Jennings, 4 different Makarovs and even a junky Hi Point that I bought almost as a joke and NONE of them ever spit the rounds out of the mag until I WANTED them to.
I purchased the CW40 for the purpose that Kahr manufactured it, as a concealed carry firearm. I liked the weight and size, nearly the same size as a Makarov, but much lighter, and apparently not anywhere near as reliable. If the time comes that I ever need to swap mags because I'm defending my life, I sure as h*ll don't want to start stuffing the rounds back into it.
So the question; Is Kahr a reputable company with decent customer service or are they not worth my time? How should I pursue this?
|07-17-2007, 03:36 PM||#2|
Join Date: Jun 2001
Due to Kahr's magazine design, this is a known problem.
I often remove a Kahr magazine from a carrier and find a loose cartridge in the bottom.
I also carry my K9 in a fanny pack, and the two spare mags in elastic loops in the front of the gun compartment.
I have to check the magazine daily to make sure a round or two hasn't come out.
Even a slight amount of friction and movement against the bullet will cause the cartridge to work it's way out.
Bottom line, take this into effect when carrying the magazines, and look into other methods or pouches to carry them in, until you find one that doesn't work the rounds out.
An occasional loose round is a small price to pay for owning a Kahr.
By the way, this is not the only gun that does this. I also used to carry a S&W 3913 that would do exactly the same thing.
Kahr won't be able to do anything about this since nothing is "broken".
Just a quirk in the magazine.
|07-17-2007, 07:13 PM||#3|
Join Date: Jul 2007
Thanks for the reply. Here's what I get from Kahr via email when I asked them about the mag spewing rounds. I've read from more than a few sources that this IS a problem, although it seems to be more prevalent with the P9 than other models. One reviewer had 3 mags that did this, called Kahr and was told "bad magazines", and they shipped 3 new ones.
Sounds like you're right though, they won't do anything about it, in fact they deny it even happens, but they suggest maybe adjusting it myself.
"This is not a problem that has been reported to us.
Once a round is in the magazine, it does not take much to move it out. Keep in mind, the magazine is designed to exit the rounds freely. Is it possible something is bumping the bullet end of the mag causing the rounds to depart the mag? I am not sure there is much we can do at this point. The internet isn't always the place to go for accurate info. There was a period of bad followers but that issue has no relation to what you are describing. Perhaps the lips of the mag are not "closed" enough? Need to be careful here however, adjusting the lips may cause feeding problems. Have you tried another mag?"
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|07-18-2007, 03:27 PM||#4|
Join Date: Jun 2001
One more time:
ALL pistol magazines will shed bullets if the bullet gets bumped and moved around enough.
Eventually the cartridge will move forward in the magazine until it can come all the way out.
The only difference here is that the Kahr takes LESS movement before it can creep forward and out of the mag than most guns.
This is simply a "quirk" of the Kahr magazine, and it's NOT a "defect" in the sense that some magazines are defective and will do it and some won't.
All you need to do to solve the "problem" is find a method of carrying the magazines so as to limit or prevent the problem.
|07-18-2007, 04:05 PM||#5|
Join Date: Jul 2007
I understand what you are saying, but the point is that Bob at Kahr states that it's never been reported, he's never heard about it at all. In fact, Bob tells me that NO ONE at Kahr has ever heard of it. Here's his exact quote, spelling and all, that I received today:
"No one here has ever heard of that probelm before with our magazines."
No. One. Has. Heard. Of. It. At. Kahr.
I find that interesting, since I've read in more than a few forums that this was pretty common, and seemingly moreso with the P9 than any other model. Kahr, in fact, HAS acknowledged this as a problem. Here's a quote from a gun reviewer who had the same issues with Kahr mags:
"Although single-stack magazines allow for a thinner gun and spares are easier to carry, Kahr magazines have their share of problems. The three magazines I got with the gun would all dislodge the top round or two if handled less than gingerly. That caused no malfunctions in the gun but my magazine pouch would always have a loose round or two in it. Eventually, I called Kahr tech support and asked them about it: they said "bad magazines" and sent me three new ones free of charge. The new magazines had a slightly different weld in the back and worked perfectly."
So Bob at Kahr tells me no one's ever heard of that, yet they've sent new magazines to at least one person, stating "Bad magazines". When a Kahr rep states "bad magazines" and replaces them, that means it's a defect. And when the reviewer states that the new ones had different welds, and worked perfectly, that tells me that "some do it and some don't", you guessed it, a defect. However to me, the issue is less about the magazines at this point than it is Kahr's customer service people denying that it's ever been reported. I work in customer service, and I don't lie to my customers.
As for "all" pistol mags losing rounds if bumped around enough, I'll take your word for that, since it's never happened to me yet, but I don't bump them around much I guess. However, after 4 hours of carrying in a pouch and finding not one, but TWO loose rounds?? I think that's a bit excessive, don't you? And, "one more time", I've had a lot of different semiautos and I've NEVER had even one round eject itself from a magazine until I wanted it to. I think the only way to limit or prevent this from happening with the CW40 mag might be to strap some tape over the open end to keep anything from moving. Might be a PIA if I need to do a tactical reload sometime though, dontcha think? I like this firearm, but I think that the mag design leaves something to be desired. That's my experience, sorry if it bugged you.
|07-19-2007, 05:05 PM||#6|
Join Date: Jun 2001
Didn't bug me.
It's not unusual for todays gun maker customer support people to either be inexperienced, or to simply blow you off.
Often, the person answering the phone is the new hire who can be spared, and simply has no idea what's what.
Any number of people report blow-offs on questions and getting really stupid answers. When asked of another person at the desk, they often get a totally different answer.
As to the problem here.
About the only gun I've never had a magazine drop a round from is the 1911.
That magazine design seems to do a better job than most any other.
My Kahr regularly drops rounds, my S&W 3913 did, ALL my Walther PPK/s guns did, and so did many others.
I used to do some top-end custom leather work for selected customers, and I've talked them and other top-end leather workers, and we've all had problems with dropped rounds.
In your specific case, I suggest looking at a different magazine pouch. Obviously, the one you have is allowing the magazines to move around and work the rounds out.
Possibly it's an up and down movement that's pushing on the bullets and working them out.
If worse comes to worse, try this:
1. Call Kahr back and talk to someone besides "Bob". TELL THEM you are unhappy and want new magazines. Kahr customer service is usually pretty good.
2. Put a wide rubber band around the magazine to hold the rounds in.
This will depend on whether the pouch will allow it.
This also prevents lost magazines from the rubber friction.
It's faster to push the rubber band off then remove tape.
|08-01-2007, 03:38 PM||#7|
Join Date: Jul 2007
Just to update this mess with my CW40. Kahr customer service guy absolutely stated that there has never been a problem reported with the CW40 mags, never heard of rounds popping out on their own accord. FINALLY he relented and sent me a new magazine, after I told him that it would never be inserted into the grip and would never be fired with. I only wanted to carry it loaded to see if it dropped rounds out of it. He sent the mag. I loaded it and carried it for about a week and never had a problem. A few days later I went to a local range, and noticed that my original mag was getting harder to load. Had to push the follower back to get the 2nd round in. Turned out to be a broken follower. I sent him a photo of the follower, asked if this would cause rounds to pop out at odd times, he stated that it would and sent me a new follower. I offered to pay for the new mag, he told me to not worry about it.
So after a lot of commotion with this guy at Kahr, he comes through with flying colors.
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