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Old 01-11-2011, 01:40 PM   #1
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Problem with Kahr Magazines

I have been researching the kahr pm's for quite some time now. Trying to decide if i should buy, and which to buy, the 9mm or 40s&w. However i see over and over about FTF, and a must to charge them with the slide release. A very good video on you tube regarding the magazines bothers me. If you load 6, or 7 rounds on the extended mag, the rounds on top point down and not up to feed properly. Why can't kahr fix this? I really want to buy one for carry, but am worried about reliability. I know people will say they are not having problems, but i see too many on the forums. Why can't i find Glock problems? Is replacing the magazines with pro mags really the way to go? How do you get the confidence to buy a carry pistol, if you have reservations on reliability?

Last edited by dave606; 01-11-2011 at 01:54 PM.
 
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Old 01-11-2011, 06:08 PM   #2
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Kahr hasn't fixed the magazines, because there is no problem.

The downward pointing top round is just a feature of the design and causes no problems.
All the Kahr pistols do this and most are very reliable.
People look at the downward pointing round and don't see that on other guns so they just decide that the magazines are defective.
If the magazine design was defective ALL Kahr pistols would jam constantly....They don't.

On the internet, you have to learn to be selective about what you believe, and who you believe.
A lot of what you'll see about guns is disgruntled customers who are angry and condemn everything about a brand, some who are just repeating what they've heard and don't even own the gun, and some outright fakery just to stir up trouble. Mixed in there are a few attempts to sabotage a brand because the poster has some sort of grudge.
It's common to see someone who got a bad gun, then takes every possible opportunity to run them down or damage their reputation by claiming the gun is a defective design or is poorly made.
You'll see people who may or may actually not have had a genuine problem, and when the company didn't meet their unreasonable demands, are attempting to punish the company by trying to convince people the guns or company are no good.
You'll recognize these people after someone posts something about a good experience or bad experience with a brand, and they quickly post about how rotten the gun is and often how you were a fool to buy one.

As with any gun of any cost, you'll see all kinds of problems on the internet.
The most problems in the Kahr's do appear to be the polymer framed guns but those are usually problems with the polymer frame itself.
The steel guns run very well.
You hear plenty of problems about Glock pistols, and every other brand.
As example the famous exploding Glock's.

As for reliability, no matter what gun or what the price, you simply buy one and see if it works. If it doesn't, you send it back to the company on their dime and let them fix it. This is no different than a new TV, a new car, or a new egg beater.

Some pointers about Kahr pistols:
Promag magazines are not good quality. With almost all of the micro-guns use ONLY genuine factory magazines.
While some people have luck with aftermarket mags, most don't, especially Promag.
The Kahr magazines are very high quality and specifically designed to work in their guns. These micro guns are operating right on the edge of what's possible in such a small package. Changing magazines or recoil springs is asking for trouble where none exists.
Micro guns are not like full sized guns. You can't play around with them this way because there's no room for variation.
Buy only Kahr mags.

The company is very clear that the gun requires a 200 round break in period, and a few need a little more. Most never give any problems from the first round. Don't be shocked if the gun gives some trouble in the first 200 rounds, but most don't.

The reason for loading from the slide lock is because you have a tiny, hard to grip gun with a very strong spring. Too many people try to "slingshot" the slide and simply fail to pull it all the way to the rear. Of course, they blame the gun or the "defective magazine" when it fails to feed.
After the gun gets broken in, most can be sling-shotted, but you have to make sure you pull the slide all the way back or it will fail to feed, just like any other gun.

You may have to experiment to find a brand and type of ammo your specific gun "likes". This is nothing new for any gun.
Too many people just decide their new gun WILL be used with a specific ammo, and when it won't work well, they blame the gun.
I've seen this many times. The owner says the gun is junk and trades it in. The new owner tries other ammo and has a 100% reliable gun.

The Kahr is a "people shooter" not a target gun or a range toy.
The only thing that counts is reliability. Too many people demand target gun accuracy and aren't happy when the Kahr won't shoot all 10's.

The Kahr has a trigger that was designed to feel like a S&W double action revolver. If you're used to 1911's or the modern short action guns, you may not like the Kahr at first.
The trigger is long and has a long return. That's how it was designed to work.
I tell people to shoot it like it's a revolver. You have to "learn" the Kahr trigger before you can shoot it fast or more accurately.
Too many people try the trigger and immediately start trying to install lighter springs or figure out how to shorten the reset. Result.... an unreliable gun.
If you want a lighter trigger or shorter reset... buy something else.

The Kahr is possibly this generations "Gold Standard" in a small micro defense gun. It's expensive, because the quality is high.
Many tens of thousands have been sold, and naturally some had problems.
As naturally, you seldom hear about all the tens of thousands that had no problems at all, but you hear constantly about the few who do.

If Kahr had "bad magazines" or any other constant design problem the company would have been out of business many years ago.
The fact that they're still in business, expanding and doing fine, and a lot of cops buy Kahr pistols, should tell you something.

The bottom line is, again, like ANY gun including the vaunted Glock, all brands will have problems with a small percentage. If you do, that's what the new gun warranty is for.
If it doesn't, you worried for nothing.

Last, you seem to have heavy reservations about the Kahr. Unless you can actually handle and fire one, possibly you shouldn't buy one.
If you're already sure Kahr has a defective magazine, even though they aren't, you'll probably start off not liking it, and the first bobble during break in will convince you it's no good.

Your choice.

Last edited by dfariswheel; 01-11-2011 at 06:24 PM.
 
Old 01-11-2011, 06:34 PM   #3
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The Kahr Mag Problem

I know the mag problem is a very hard fix. You can not single stack ammo that tapers. Glock solved this problem by double stacking the magazines. Rifles with high capacity use curved magazines. When you have tapered ammo in 9mm after 5 rounds they start to get unstable. So Kahr uses the slide release method of charging, so that the inertia is high enough to force the unstable or misaligned round to go into battery. If you slowly relax the slide on a glock it will just suck up it up into the chamber, because it is pointed right into the chamber. How does pro mag take a single stack 9mm, and keep the top round stable, is what i want Kahr to address. I am not saying pro mags are better, but the top cartridge has support under the bullet end and Kahr's mags do not. I have worked with machines my whole life and know there is room for improvement in the magazines.

Last edited by dave606; 01-11-2011 at 06:52 PM.
 
Old 01-12-2011, 05:58 PM   #4
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Kahr doesn't use the slide release method to cure a defect in the magazine design.
They use the slide release method because it's simply too easy to botch the load due to having a tiny, hard to hold gun with a very strong recoil spring.
Too many people were trying to sling shot the slide and failing to do it correctly, so Kahr recommends the slide stop method.

If you'd like Kahr to address the magazine design, I'd suggest you contact Kahr and talk it over with them.
They seem to have the idea their magazine design is a good one, and the vast majority of owners have to agree since we have perfectly reliable guns.
The gun and magazine was designed by owner Justin Moon, who has some very impressive degrees in engineering.

Again, since you seem to already be of the mind that Kahr isn't very good, I'd suggest you not buy one because it's unlikely to convince you otherwise.
There are other micro guns made that might be more to your liking.
 
Old 01-13-2011, 02:56 AM   #5
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The Kahr Mag Problem

Kahr does have an inherent problem with 9mm magazines. If you stack more than 5 tapered cartridges in a single stack you can not support the bullet end of the cartridge. Glock solved this with the double stack and high capacity rifle by curving the magazine. You will notice if you only put 4 or less in your pm9 you can ease your slide down and it will chamber every time. If you have 6 or 7 it will get caught 90% of the time. I know dfariswheel thinks this how it was designed, but i think it is an inherent problem. I don't think Kahr wanted those top 5 or 6 rounds to hang up.
 
Old 01-13-2011, 05:28 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave606 View Post
I know the mag problem is a very hard fix. You can not single stack ammo that tapers. Glock solved this problem by double stacking the magazines.
I usually stay out of these technical issue dilemas, but I have to disagree here. Glock had nothing to do with any issue related to feeding issues of 9mm pistols or any tapered cartridges for that matter. Neither is the statement that you cannot single stack tapered cartridges accurate.

High capacity 9mm pistols have been around long before Gaston Glock applied for his patent. Browning Hi-Power ring a bell from 1935? S&W 59 from the 1970s?, CZ75 and HKVP70 all predated the Glock. From the development of the 9mm Luger there have been many single stacks that have performed admirably for the last 80 some years. What would call the P-08 Luger, P38 Walther, S&W Model 39,Colt 1911 in 9mm, all clones in 9mm, SIG P225 and P239, HK P7 series,the Walther PPS, I could go on and on and on. You get the point.

As a 35 year law enforcement officer, Sgt.& trainer, most weapon malfunctions I have seen are shooter induced. Improper stance, grip, weapon manipulation, sighting. Second was worn improper parts changes. Very rarely was it an actual weapon or mag problem.

Last edited by Sarge405; 01-13-2011 at 10:21 AM.
 
Old 01-13-2011, 05:44 PM   #7
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Sarge, you're on the money as usual. Some years ago, I attended Massad Ayoob's 2 day Lethal Force Institute's training event on personal protection. All participants had CCW permits and were armed. A fellow classmate had a brand new Kahr 9mm, and it was passed around when a group of us went to supper with Mas. None of us had handled one, and we all marvelled at it's diminutive size and ease of concealment. After supper, we went to a range to do some shooting. Mas took that fellow's Kahr, which had NEVER been shot before. At 50', he shot a one ragged hole group. Needless to say, I was VERY IMPRESSED with both Mas and the Kahr.

Last edited by one eye joe; 01-14-2011 at 06:17 AM.
 
Old 01-14-2011, 04:37 AM   #8
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Joe,
Mas and I go back quite a few years. I have been to LFI-1,2,3.
 
Old 01-14-2011, 06:08 AM   #9
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He's such a great guy, isn't he Sarge. Very humble and down to earth......( a lot like you)
 
Old 01-14-2011, 06:33 AM   #10
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Humble,hmm.......

Back to topic, where is Dave606? Does he not want to provide any substantive proof for his statements?
 
Old 01-14-2011, 07:05 AM   #11
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Well Sarge, IMHO ya don't spend alotta time blowin' smoke up your own ass........
 
Old 01-14-2011, 07:15 AM   #12
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The Kahr Mag Problem

I am in new york and had this problem so i went on the web to see what i could find. On you tube is an excellent or should i say 2 excellent videos showing and explaining this problem. If you have a pm9, fully load a mag then push front of top round down. It will stay down, the spring pressure is only at the back of round. After removing 2 rounds they have support and chamber perfectly. On bigger pistols with more substantial mags they can achieve that support. I am in no way saying Kahr pistols are not quality, i am saying that the magazines can be improved. The chambering of a round should be done with design and not force. If you ease the slide closed on glocks or 1911's they chamber rounds easily. However on a kahr they will get stuck almost everytime. Do you think this is normal?
 
Old 01-14-2011, 09:41 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfariswheel View Post
Kahr hasn't fixed the magazines, because there is no problem.

The downward pointing top round is just a feature of the design and causes no problems.
All the Kahr pistols do this and most are very reliable.
People look at the downward pointing round and don't see that on other guns so they just decide that the magazines are defective.
If the magazine design was defective ALL Kahr pistols would jam constantly....They don't.

On the internet, you have to learn to be selective about what you believe, and who you believe.
A lot of what you'll see about guns is disgruntled customers who are angry and condemn everything about a brand, some who are just repeating what they've heard and don't even own the gun, and some outright fakery just to stir up trouble. Mixed in there are a few attempts to sabotage a brand because the poster has some sort of grudge.
It's common to see someone who got a bad gun, then takes every possible opportunity to run them down or damage their reputation by claiming the gun is a defective design or is poorly made.
You'll see people who may or may actually not have had a genuine problem, and when the company didn't meet their unreasonable demands, are attempting to punish the company by trying to convince people the guns or company are no good.
You'll recognize these people after someone posts something about a good experience or bad experience with a brand, and they quickly post about how rotten the gun is and often how you were a fool to buy one.

As with any gun of any cost, you'll see all kinds of problems on the internet.
The most problems in the Kahr's do appear to be the polymer framed guns but those are usually problems with the polymer frame itself.
The steel guns run very well.
You hear plenty of problems about Glock pistols, and every other brand.
As example the famous exploding Glock's.

As for reliability, no matter what gun or what the price, you simply buy one and see if it works. If it doesn't, you send it back to the company on their dime and let them fix it. This is no different than a new TV, a new car, or a new egg beater.

Some pointers about Kahr pistols:
Promag magazines are not good quality. With almost all of the micro-guns use ONLY genuine factory magazines.
While some people have luck with aftermarket mags, most don't, especially Promag.
The Kahr magazines are very high quality and specifically designed to work in their guns. These micro guns are operating right on the edge of what's possible in such a small package. Changing magazines or recoil springs is asking for trouble where none exists.
Micro guns are not like full sized guns. You can't play around with them this way because there's no room for variation.
Buy only Kahr mags.

The company is very clear that the gun requires a 200 round break in period, and a few need a little more. Most never give any problems from the first round. Don't be shocked if the gun gives some trouble in the first 200 rounds, but most don't.

The reason for loading from the slide lock is because you have a tiny, hard to grip gun with a very strong spring. Too many people try to "slingshot" the slide and simply fail to pull it all the way to the rear. Of course, they blame the gun or the "defective magazine" when it fails to feed.
After the gun gets broken in, most can be sling-shotted, but you have to make sure you pull the slide all the way back or it will fail to feed, just like any other gun.

You may have to experiment to find a brand and type of ammo your specific gun "likes". This is nothing new for any gun.
Too many people just decide their new gun WILL be used with a specific ammo, and when it won't work well, they blame the gun.
I've seen this many times. The owner says the gun is junk and trades it in. The new owner tries other ammo and has a 100% reliable gun.

The Kahr is a "people shooter" not a target gun or a range toy.
The only thing that counts is reliability. Too many people demand target gun accuracy and aren't happy when the Kahr won't shoot all 10's.

The Kahr has a trigger that was designed to feel like a S&W double action revolver. If you're used to 1911's or the modern short action guns, you may not like the Kahr at first.
The trigger is long and has a long return. That's how it was designed to work.
I tell people to shoot it like it's a revolver. You have to "learn" the Kahr trigger before you can shoot it fast or more accurately.
Too many people try the trigger and immediately start trying to install lighter springs or figure out how to shorten the reset. Result.... an unreliable gun.
If you want a lighter trigger or shorter reset... buy something else.

The Kahr is possibly this generations "Gold Standard" in a small micro defense gun. It's expensive, because the quality is high.
Many tens of thousands have been sold, and naturally some had problems.
As naturally, you seldom hear about all the tens of thousands that had no problems at all, but you hear constantly about the few who do.

If Kahr had "bad magazines" or any other constant design problem the company would have been out of business many years ago.
The fact that they're still in business, expanding and doing fine, and a lot of cops buy Kahr pistols, should tell you something.

The bottom line is, again, like ANY gun including the vaunted Glock, all brands will have problems with a small percentage. If you do, that's what the new gun warranty is for.
If it doesn't, you worried for nothing.

Last, you seem to have heavy reservations about the Kahr. Unless you can actually handle and fire one, possibly you shouldn't buy one.
If you're already sure Kahr has a defective magazine, even though they aren't, you'll probably start off not liking it, and the first bobble during break in will convince you it's no good.

Your choice.
First, listen to this man and heed his words. He KNOWS what he is talking about.

Second, I watched over a dozen videos on YOUBOOB. By far the majority were flattering of the PM9 as a carry gun in their review.

Third, the two that were attempting to demonstrate "a perceived design flaw" in the magazine did so by manipulating the round insertion and slide release by hand to achieve the desired result. Nowhere did they insert a full magazine and use the slide release lever or live fire the weapon during the test to break it in. None of us intentionally depress a top round causing a malfunction. We load it, smack our mags to align the rounds then insert them. The 3 prong attack of spring forces(recoil,main,magazine) work together to make sure all goes according to plan. Slowing down the slide by hand is a surefire way of gumming up the works.

Fourth, I can achieve the same results on my singlestack 38supers and 9mms of varying makes. All perform flawlessly when handled correctly by a knowledgeable shooter.

Last edited by Sarge405; 01-14-2011 at 09:47 AM.
 
Old 01-14-2011, 01:56 PM   #14
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Sarge 405 you wrote a very interesting paragraph but it still doesn't address the top rounds getting caught on the bottom of the barrel ramp. It would not do this if the rounds were pointing into the chamber. You think Kahr purposely designed this to be hard to chamber a round. You have to sling shot the slide or use the slide release. Why didn't they make it so it would go right in as they do if you have 3 or 4 rounds in the magazine. I didn't read this on the internet, it works this way. You are getting hot as if i am knocking your favorite pistol. I am just asking why they can't design a magazine that supports all the rounds. And your saying that Kahr wants you to have to force the top rounds in but they want the last 3 or 4 to just glide in. I really like and will probably purchase a Kahr pistol but am saying the magazine could be better. I don't like not being able to release the slide the way i do on other pistols, and have the top round stuck on the feed ramp.
 
Old 01-14-2011, 03:15 PM   #15
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Dave, i sometimes have the same problem with a full mag of .22LR in my Ruger MK II, if I inadvertently forget to smack the back of the mag into the palm of my hand before inserting it into the weapon.
 
Old 01-14-2011, 05:51 PM   #16
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All I can add is that I have an early stainless K9 and I can't even induce it to jam. This is purely anecdotal, but I know a lot of people who own Kahr pistols, and very few have had problems.
I broke it in with some really horrible 1960's Egyptian 9mm ammo that wouldn't work in anything else, but the K9 just ate it up.
I run Winchester Silver Tips in it simply because that's what I had on hand when I bought it, and since it's 100% with it, I've seen no reason to change.
I have three mags with the gun and over 3000 rounds through it, with ZERO stoppages.

I can load the K9 by gently easing the slide forward and the round will feed perfectly, needing only a push to fully close the slide after the round is in the chamber. Admittedly, this is a K9, which is bigger than the micro guns.

I just don't know what to tell you about the "defective magazines".
Hundreds of thousands of Kahr's have been sold and you hear almost no complaints about magazines other than a bad batch of plastic followers a few years ago.
The downward round looks odd, and in other guns is often a problem. It isn't in the Kahr, and most owners just ignore it when it works so well.

Bottom line, for a "defective design magazine" there are remarkably few complaints about it from actual users.
If there was a problem with the design, Justin Moon would have of necessity changed it under customer demand.
Many Kahr buyers are individual police and some departments. They don't buy guns that have a design defect that the manufacturer refuses to correct.

You seem to be obsessing over something that isn't as problem and is only claimed by some unknown people in a couple of youtube posts.
If you spend any time at all on youtube, you quickly learn to take what is presented there with a lot of skepticism.
So the top rounds are supported oddly, and so the top round points downward.
All that matters is does the gun function when fired?
Does the gun load properly when loaded per the factory's instructions?

If the answer to both is "Yes", I'd submit there is no issue.
 
Old 01-15-2011, 04:55 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave606 View Post
You are getting hot as if i am knocking your favorite pistol.
No sir. Not at all. If you think explanations are anger then you need to re-read posts. You are the one who seems to be obsessed with this issue and you stated you have'nt even purchased one yet. There are tens of thousands of happy Kahr owners out there and a couple of of internet self made gunsmiths knowitalls come up with a non existent problem to bolster their ego and and the minions fall in line. If you have a problem with YOUR gun take it to the maker or a qualified gunsmith. Period.

Ps-I do not own a Kahr nor am I affiliated with the company.
 
Old 01-15-2011, 07:02 AM   #18
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And with that post I am done with this subject. Some will listen to those with the knowledge and some will not.
 
Old 01-15-2011, 04:47 PM   #19
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I'm also out.
 
Old 02-15-2012, 05:25 PM   #20
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Kahr PM9 Issues

Howdy Folks,

New user here, but not a new gun guy.

I recently purchased a Kahr PM9 (11 February, 2012), and took it to the range the day after to test it out.

I used two different types of ammunition. One was a standard FMJ, and the other was a hollowpoint (Hornady). I had NUMEROUS issues with failure to feed to the point that I almost could not get the slide to move, or remove the magazine. This happened with both the 6 and 7 round magazines. I only managed to put about 120 rounds through all of the hang ups before I gave up.

I've never ever had anything even remotely close to this issue with ANY of my other handguns. Believe me, I WANT to like this gun.

I've heard and read similar stories prior to purchasing this pistol, however I believed some of it to be rare issues. I love the overall fit and finish of the pistol, and was also sold on it's size. The trigger is perfect as well when it worked.

The problem in my estimation has something to do with the interference fit between the magazine, the magazine release button, and the magazine release "opening" in the magazine. Another possibility might have something to do with the magazine spring being too weak?

When these malfunctions occurred, the magazine was jammed so tightly in the receiver that I had to try for almost a minute to get it out. The cartidges left inside were "nose down" in the magazine. Not that that means anything, but, . . . never noticed that in any other handgun. Just saying. I had never read anything about that before, just happened to see it as I was trying like hell to clear the malfuntion.

I WILL NOT carry this handgun as my personal defense weapon until it fires at least 500 round without any malfunctions at this point. Besides, I have too many other 99% reliable handguns to stress over this one (other than the wheelbarrow full of money the freaking thing cost).



I've included a comment that I found on while doing a search for issues relating to feed problems with the PM9. This comment is exactly the issue I had as well. I'd be most interested in hearing your comments. Others have suggested purchasing an aftermarket magazine, however for the over $700 I paid, this thing should work FLAWLESSLY (or should I say, like my Glocks, my Sig, my Ruger, hell, even my Kel-Tec). I've owned many, many handguns, and this is the ONLY one I've EVER had problems like this with.

[I]"My PM9 recently went to the factory for it's 5th and final trip. They finally bought it back. Worst gun I have ever owned. It suffered from chronic catastrophic jamming. The mag would be near impossible to remove after it FTF or FTE. However, it could be thrown at ones assailant after a FTF. I don't believe it ever went more than 20 rounds without a screw up. Several other experienced shooters had the same results. Good luck with yours. I'll try a Beretta Nano next."
 
Old 02-16-2012, 06:29 PM   #21
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As mentioned in the above old posts, you will occasionally get a problem gun from ANY maker.
To be fair, Kahr still seems to have more trouble with the micro polymer framed guns then they do with the steel models.

That's what the new gun warranty is for.
Simply contact Kahr and explain the problems you're having.
They will send you a return label so it won't cost you any shipping charges.

Send the gun in to them and let them diagnose and correct the problems.
Kahr is a quality gun company and they have a good rep for correcting issues.
Give them a chance to do so.

When you get the gun back, you might try some different ammo. Some guns just don't "like" some ammo but work 100% with something else.
 
Old 05-25-2012, 11:20 AM   #22
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I read this thread and had to join in. I picked up my pm9 yesterday and shot 200+ rounds out of it today. I have never in my life had a gun jam like this. Nose dives; round gets so jammed that you have to open the slide and lock it back to drop the magazine.. particularly with the 7 round magazine and a few times with the six however less frequently. (FYI Winchester white box) TRUTH; it takes a minimum of 200 rounds to get this gun to shoot consistently without fail. TRUTH; this gun will jam several times while you are "breaking it in". TRUTH; you will get killed if you choose the 7 round magazine for defensive carry. Now, at the end of my range session I did shoot 3 - 6 round magazines of HST's (124 grn) with no jams at all. so perhaps now its "broken in." Look, I have owned several handguns, I am a former United States Soldier, I am also a Mechanical Engineer and I will tell you that this gun is definately not worth the money. It's simply not a high quality product and is not as well designed as some rave about. Hindsight, should have held out for the Smith and Wesson Shield. I bet you don't have to polish the feed ramp on that gun and then spend 50 bucks on ammo to see if it will work. And by the way, a quality firearm will shoot the cheapest ammo anywhere, anytime.
 
Old 05-25-2012, 06:40 PM   #23
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Contact Davd Dawson at www.dawsonprecision.com Home Page.

He is the gunsmith to the stars of gun dancing sports. He will make you a space gun that looks positively alien and 100% reliable.

Contact him and ask him what he thinks of the Kahr CW-9. He is selling them with a little tweaking from his shop and recommends that particualar gun above all others for easy day in -day out concealed carry.

This is the guy that makes the guns that Todd Jarrett shoots so well.

I wish that I were as detail oriented, technically minded and eloquent as dfarriswheel. But he makes good sense and re-inforces what Dawson is doing just on the basis of his reputation as a dealer and smith.
 
Old 05-26-2012, 11:17 AM   #24
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Yeah, crkt- I'm sorry you are having issues with your Kahr. It seems to me that the poly guns from them have FAR more issues than the steel framed ones. Still, I seem to see and hear many more + stories than - stories about Kahr pistols. I'd def say to call Kahr. If they can get it right, then you're good. If not, then I'm sure you can trade it for a decent $ amount on a Shield. Break ins are just something that a lot of people have to deal with. I know I've had to run OVER the manual stated 500rds in a RIA 1911, but then had another one that ran 100% right out of the box. It's never a guarantee to get 100% reliability- 100% of the time unless you commission a professional 'Smith. Even then people sometimes have problems. I have a customer that bought a Wilson 1911, a CQB Elite and had to send it in 3 times and it still isn't 100%. Now if I spent over 2k on a pistol and had that many problems, I'd hit the roof. Then again, I like to build my own 1911s. Have you given that a thought? Building your own gun or working your Kahr over yourself? I agree with the guys on Dawson Precision, and C&S is def worth a look too if you want someone else to do the dirty work.
 
Old 07-24-2012, 10:42 AM   #25
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: florida
Posts: 4
Hey Alabaster, I have been to the range one more time since my last post. The 7 round mag is a definite no go. Better luck with 6 rounders but still some issues. Next range trip I'm going to have my gf try to break it for 1 more torture test. I like this pistol for its size and versatility for hip and pocket carry when needed, but one more hiccup and it's gone.
 
Old 12-24-2012, 02:18 PM   #26
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Va
Posts: 2
Just got my New Kahr CM9. Out of the box and ran 50 flawless rounds through it with the six round mag. Disassembled, cleaned and ready for 50 more at a later date. I do not have any other mags to try YET! This gun has a great feel in my hand, less snap than other sub compact 9's I have tried. Definately feel I have a winner here. Read about mag problems above and I can say if you load rounds properly you cant MAKE top round point down. If you don't push rounds in then they will point down. First four mags I racked rounds in by using the slide release as per instructions, HAD NO PROBLEMS. Next four mags racked in by slingshotting the slide again NO PROBLEMS. I think I have found my new favorite pistol!!!
 
Old 12-24-2012, 07:39 PM   #27
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Location: Huntsville, Ala.
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Welcome Aboard!

Thanks for sharing your good news with us.
 
Old 12-26-2012, 07:08 AM   #28
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Va
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OK, went out yesterday and ran another 150 rounds through the Kahr CM9 with only 1 issue, the slide did not lock back after the last round once, every other time it did lock back. It could have been due to my daughter shooting it. She could have been limp wristing it. She shot it several other mags full without any issues. This is an excellent little pistol. I give it "TWO THUMBS UP"

BTW
Thanks for the Welcome.
 
Old 02-24-2013, 01:38 PM   #29
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Missouri
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7 round mag issues

I have the Kahr CM9 shoots perfectly with 6 round mag. bought the 7 round mag and it nose dives trying to cock it. the jam is very bad and hard to get mag out. no problems with 6 round mag.

i am taking the 7 round mags back.
 
Old 02-24-2013, 04:26 PM   #30
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By "cock it" I assume you tried to manually operate the slide or "sling shot" it to load?

If so, you should read the owner's manual.
Kahr very specifically states that the gun MUST be loaded by locking the slide back, inserting a loaded magazine, and pushing the slide stop to drop the slide.

Many guns can be "sling shotted" to load, but the Kahr isn't one of them.
Many Kahr's do break in to the point where you can manually operate the slide to load, but the factory specified loading method is from a locked open slide.

With that said, there does seem to be a number of people who have problems with the larger capacity magazines in the small Kahr's.
I guess the answer for that is, use the original size magazines, or buy a larger model Kahr.

Last edited by dfariswheel; 02-24-2013 at 04:32 PM.
 
Old 02-25-2013, 03:05 AM   #31
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Location: Missouri
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magazine issue

thanks for the reply. i will give that a try.
 
Old 02-26-2013, 01:58 PM   #32
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Kahr K9 owner here.

There's definitely a problem but it affects some more than others because it depends on what ammo you purchased.
You will likely NEVER have a problem with FMJ.
I carried mine for years after flawlessly test firing several boxes of Winchester Supreme SXT rounds.
More recently, I decided it was time to upgrade my ammo, then UH OH. It BARELY, and I mean BARELY chambers Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +p. What I noticed was the rim of the speer hollow point is just slightly larger diameter than the rim of the Supreme. This tiny difference is enough that when it noses down it catches the bottom corner of the feed ramp. (yes, I said corner) for some reason the feed ramp looks like the right 1/3 of it is missing. The ammo actually catches the bottom corner.
In experimention, what I discovered as to the reason that releasing the slide with the slide release instead of pulling back is because it takes 100% of the slide's possible power to FORCE the bullet to skip off the bottom edge of the feed ramp. I repeatedly tried to chamber the top round of a full magazine and most times it did fine, but some times the slide actually stopped for a millisecond while the bullet was being forced off the edge of the ramp. This was then proven by the fact that there is a visible indent in the otherwise pristine bullet hollow point rim.

This scares me more than I can adequately describe. It means that the bullet isn't actually feeding up the ramp but rather catching the bottom and is JUST BARELY FORCING it's way across the bottom of the ramp. That is WAY WAY too close for anyone's comfort.

There are others on newsgroups that have done some minor reshaping to the magazine follower to change the bullet angle of the stack a tiny fraction of an angle and the problem for some goes away.

In my case I had the issue with both factory magazines, so I don't think a third will fix the issue.
Dfariswheel shouldn't assume he knows anything about Kahr in particular without examining one. They are apparently ammo sensitive which is odd for a modern firearm that is of medium size.
 
Old 02-26-2013, 06:34 PM   #33
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Dfariswheel shouldn't assume he knows anything about Kahr in particular without examining one

Well, I've owned a couple, and gunsmithed a number of them..... does that count??

One of the better "rules of guns and ammo" is when a gun doesn't seem to work well with a type-brand of ammo, try something else. Not all guns "like" all ammo.
What works great in one gun may choke in another of the same make and model.
That's why you shoot enough ammo to do a verification of THAT gun, with THAT ammo, in THOSE magazines.
If it has problems, try different ammo and if it still does it, have the gun looked at.

Last edited by dfariswheel; 02-26-2013 at 06:38 PM.
 
Old 03-03-2013, 08:36 PM   #34
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Destin. FL
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Mag Problem ???

I just bought a CM 9. I have the std Kahr mag and 2 ProMags. I am using my old ammo to break it in. I have shot about 100 rds of various FMJ and HP. Federal, WW, and Rem. I have had no problems whatsoever. Great little piece. The pistol is very tight as most new ones are. I did clean it well before I took it to the range. I understand Kahr test fires each pistol before shipping. Mine was very dirty. I was surprised at the accuracy at 7 yds. Almost as good as my Glock 19. I think with a little more experience with the trigger, I will get better. I am pleased with it so far and selected it over a G26 because of it smaller size for pocket carry.
 
Old 03-04-2013, 06:11 PM   #35
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Kahr seems to be one of those guns that people either love or they hate. There doesn't seem to be much in between.

Some guns seem to attract a lot of "haters".
Mention Colt firearms, especially Pythons or AR-15's, or Kahr Arms and some people just start foaming at the mouth.

Last edited by dfariswheel; 03-04-2013 at 06:13 PM.
 
Old 03-05-2013, 02:50 AM   #36
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 211
Hello,

The main problem with the KAHR's is the feed ramp is damn near straight up-n-down, ie. very little angle at all, and you really need to keep an eye on bullet set-back if/when you rechamber the same round a coupla times.
 
Old 03-05-2013, 04:55 PM   #37
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Bullet set back can be a problem in most any pistol design, but the Kahr does have a problem with it, and that's strictly due to the design of the gun.

There is no free lunch.
In order to get a micro-mini gun that still works reliably, you have to give up something. In this case, in order to have a gun that short and small the feed ramp is necessarily steep.

In the early days of the police transition to the automatic pistol they had a problem with "second round stoppages". The gun would fire the first round then fail to feed the second round.
This was traced to bullet set back cause by the police inspection process.
The magazine would be removed, the round in the barrel ejected and the gun inspected.
Then the magazine was replaced and the top round chambered, the mag removed and the loose round that was ejected would be put back in the mag.

This meant that the same two rounds were being chambered over and over, pushing the bullet back in the case. The short round would eventually cause a jam.
The police changed procedures to prevent chambering the same two rounds, and police issue ammo is made to allow 3 to 4 chamberings before the ammo is shot in practice or discarded.

Personally, I keep a new, un-chambered round of ammo that I use as a gage for ammo used in My Kahr.
When loading ammo in my mags, I simply compare them to the new round and this quickly shows any short rounds.
 
Old 06-20-2013, 09:30 AM   #38
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: pittsburgh
Posts: 1
k9 magazines

I recently bought a K9 as a backup and off duty gun and love the size and feel of the Kahr but have had several issues with the 7 round magazines as well. I bought 3 extra factory mags and have had FTF issues with every one of them. I also bought a Pro Mag and ended up returning it because it failed to fit properly. There was one thing that I tried prior to returning the PROMAG just to give myself a little piece of mind since I hope to carry the Kahr as a backup once It proves to be reliable. The follower from the PROMAG is designed differently and actually works very well in the factory mags. I have inquired with PROMAG about possibly buying followers and am waiting to hear back.
 
Old 06-20-2013, 07:44 PM   #39
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Somewhere there's a Kahr forum and they had some info on a simple modification to the factory followers that cured some problems.

These things are elusive.
I have an early stainless K9 with 7 round mags and I can't even induce a stoppage. It just eats everything I feed it, including the break in ammo which was some really awful 1950's Egyptian 9mm corrosive ammo that wouldn't work in anything.

Other people get a K9, which has the reputation of being Kahr's least troublesome model, and they have issues.

You might do a search for the Kahr forum and look through it for the magazine follower alteration info.
 
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