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Old 03-03-2005, 12:24 PM   #1
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Charles Daly

Hello Folks,

Can anyone tell me where the frames for the Charles Daly 1911 pistols are made? A friend of mine said he saw some at the ShOT show and commented that they are awesome pistols, however the frames are made overseas in China or Taiwan he can't remember which. Is this true? He did mention that they fit perfectly and pointed very well.
 
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Old 03-03-2005, 02:10 PM   #2
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I know their shotguns are made in Turkey. Probably pistols too.
 
Old 03-03-2005, 03:06 PM   #3
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Charles Daly 1911's are made in the Phillippines. They are hardly a Limited Production gun, and are made of inferior steel, and rough internal finishing. Some stuff is also not spec. i know from personal experience.
 
Old 03-10-2005, 10:30 AM   #4
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Rob96,

Is your experience with the older Charles Dalys or the newer ones since they made the changes in manufacturing in a couple of years ago? I have a current one and I can change parts between it and Colts and a Norinco with no problem. I am curious about your statement regarding inferior steel. I have a bit over 1,000 rounds through mine with no problems but inferior steel could be an issue later on. I am not aware if CD changed their steel process when they made the change to making their 1911s mil spec.

Thanks,

Bill
 
Old 03-11-2005, 12:43 AM   #5
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Now this is back a couple years. The issue with the slide, was that it was "soft". The notch in the slide where the slide stop engages started wearing and rounding out. From what I read, this was not just a problem on mine. I am of the opinion that you are better off spending a few more bucks and getting a Springer.
 
Old 03-11-2005, 03:33 AM   #6
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Armscorp, Charles Daly, and Rock Island Armory are all made in the Phillipines by the same company, but each seller machines and finishes their brand to different standards. From what I gather from posts and gunshops, the Charles Daly's seem to have the most problems and the Armscorp's and Rock Island's have fewer problems. I have head that the machining sometimes leaves a lot to be desired and the holes are not always where they are supposed to be and are sometimes off-angle. Figure these usually go for $300 to $400 new and a Springfield GI goes for $350 to $400 new, the little you save with the cheaper pistol is not enough to justify buying something that may be a bag of trouble. For the money it is real hard to beat the Springfield.
 
Old 03-11-2005, 05:05 AM   #7
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We need to compare apples to apples when comparing a Charles Daly with a Springfield. The Springfields in the price range mentioned previously are plain Jane GI look alikes or the same with slightly better sights. With the CD you get Novak type low mount sights, ambidextrous extended thumb safety, extended slide release, beveled grip, Colt Gold Cup type trigger, and beaver tail grip safety. A comparable equipped Springfield is the 1911 A-1 Loaded. These retail for $845 as compared to the comparable Charles Daly at $561. Going online you can find the Charles Daly for $380 and the Springfield for $660. My Charles Daly is anything but a “bag of trouble”. It has never had a FTF or FTE with factory ammo and the aftermarket parts I have tried have dropped in with no fitting required. Communication from their customer service has been prompt and courteous. If spending close to $300 more to get the same features is not an issue then you may want to consider adding a couple more bucks and getting a Colt. My Charles Daly has over 1050 rounds through it and is going strong. So far so good. IF (big if) the metallurgy is an issue it may show up several or a few thousand round from now. Of course you could have Accurate Plating and Weaponry (http://www.apwcogan.com/Greetings.htm) apply their hard chrome for $120 and you are still money ahead. Barring that, I would concede that anyone who expects to fire several hundred rounds a week would be better served with a Springfield or a Colt or a Norinco if you can find one.
You are wise to seek a lot of input, “There is wisdom in a multitude of counselors”, but ultimately it has to be what will make you happy, what you will use it for, how often, and your budget. Hope this helps. Best to you and I hope you get a 1911 you will enjoy and which will provide great service.

Bill
 
Old 03-26-2005, 10:34 PM   #8
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I don't post here very often, but I had to chime in on this one. I have owned TWO Charles Daly 1911's - both were of the discontinued "superior" grade finish (all stainless construction, but with blackened "blued" slide & other parts like the grip safety, MSH, slide stop & thumb safety, etc). The two I've owned were the EMS (4" Commander-esqe w/ full size frame), and the ECS (3.5" bushingless bull barrel, OACP frame).

I no longer own the 4" barrelled pistol, but that was NOT due to the pistol itself - it was intended as my primary carry piece, and the longer grip frame just wasn't concealable on my skinny butt (30" waist, 135 lbs., and I prefer to carry on a belt holster). I do miss it very much, as the kind of magazines I prefer are more available in the longer (standard) grip frame. The only problem I had with it was that it was used when I bought it, and the previous owner had done some home " 'smithin' " with it, and screwed up the ejector and extractor a bit. Once I took it back to the shop I got it from (they fixed it for free - WOW! On a used gun?!), it ran like a champ.

As for the ECS 3.5", I've had it for almost a year now. Mine was made in 2001, right around the time of the "changeover". The steel in it is VERY tough - ask Bob Cogan at APW about it! The only minor problem I've had with it was, although I bought it new (old stock), the ejector was broken when purchased and needed replacing. Bob did the work for me, and found that the ejector leg hole WAS drilled off just a hair. Easily fixed. All other holes were in-spec. I've replaced the factory trigger (the factory one tended to tear a cut into my trigger finger during recoil - hey, it's a compact .45 Auto 1911, folks) w/ a Ed Brown, and I replaced the rear sight because I HATE plain black sights, and the standard GI type it had on it kept nailing my elbow right in the funny bone when holstered (which is 99.99% of the day). I put in a used rear sight I found at a local gun shop, which indexed and fit fine with a little fine tuning to the sight itself. I also drilled a small hole and filled it with paint on the factory front sight (I need to eventually replace them both w/ night-sights, but that's later). The only other problem I've had is occasional failures to lock open on an empty mag, but that's the crappy Springfield Armory mags I bought because they were cheap (I'm getting replacements as soon as I can afford it). None of these "problems" were the pistol's fault, except the ejector - and hey, stuff happens, folks. The pistol itself runs flawlessly, is quite accurate when I do my part (I can get dead-on bull's eyes all day at 25 feet with the right ammo at a decent range where I can see the darn target), and looks pretty nice, too.

The only complaints I have:

The finish work on the slide (the blackening of the stainless) looks done by a two year old with a old paintbrush. I understand this is not uncommon with blackened stainless, but it does bother me.

The black finish wears fast. Again, extremely common with blackened stainless. Found that either Birchwood Casey's Aluminum Black or Super Blue (NOT the "Perma Blue") works great for touch-ups - you can't even tell it's been touched up, and the finish seems to last longer. I may refinish all of the blackened parts with this stuff in the future.

The finish of the stainless frame is VERY scratch-prone. Again, common to stainless - especially cast stainless, which this is. To Charles Daly's credit, there are NO cast marks, voids, etc. anywhere. Like any matte stainless pistol, it'll need bead blasting periodically.

On my ECS, it came with a standard (non-extended) thumb safety. While more comfortable for carry, I'd prefer a slightly extended one, instead. Also, no ambi safety, unlike the EMS series (I'm not sure about the full-size ones, but I think they come with ambi's). I could care less about the ambi safeties, though. They do use the "Colt's" ambi system, which is MUCH harder to find replacement parts for (uses an extended sear pin w/ a notch to capture the right side lever, and the two levers mate via a "box joint" on the shaft that holds the grip safety in). Most other ambi's use a "wing" on the right side lever that's held in place by the right side stock panel, which is slightly relieved for the purpose. Either works, and either can be swapped out for the other if you obtain the extra parts. Not a big deal, but something people should be aware of.

For the record, my CD ECS is accurate, extremely reliable (although it HATES Remington "green box" ammo - oh, well), and well made for the price. I paid $300 for the EMS which was used, and I traded it two months later for the ECS, plus $100 (which was new), for a grand total of $400 for the ECS. As my locality tends to be QUITE highly priced for firearms & ammo (how about a Springer GI base model for $800? Or, a mid-range Kimber for $1200? Come on, folks!), I feel I got a real bargain - twice. Bob Cogan at APW is my gunsmith (although I rarely need him), and he had ZERO qualms about working on my Daly.

I would not hesitate to buy another Daly pistol - with this caveat: I would check it out thoroughly, as I do with ANY potential firearms' purchase, new or used. I plan to buy a full-sized model soon (I just want one - might use it as a SHTF spare), and I plan to obtain another EMS 4" after that. Other than getting the funds together (I got a couple other firearms to buy first, like an AR-15 "M-4' type and a shotgun), I just can't decide on the blued, or the stainless for the new buys - since my beloved two-tone isn't available anymore. I suppose I could get the stainless and do my own two-tones, eh?

Yes, a Kimber, Springer, Colt, Baer, Wilson, etc. can be better pistols - out of the box, yet. But, they cost more around here than I make in a month (in some cases, three months!). For people like me who love 1911's, but can't afford the exorbatant prices most companies want for 'em, a Daly can be a godsend. Just check it over very carefully first, like you should with ANYTHING you buy - would you buy a car without looking under the hood? A house without checking it out? A TV without turning it on and seeing what the picture looks like? Then why buy a firearm costing several hundred (sometimes several thousand) dollars without checking it out? I'll never understand people who just look at a gun without even racking the slide or ejecting the mag and plunk down $1000 for it without blinking an eye...

Good luck with whatever you decide to buy. If you look it over well first (familiarize yourself with how the pistol works first before going to the shop), you should get a winner. Remember - if you get a Daly, they have a LIFETIME warranty - this means springs, frames, whatever.
 
Old 05-19-2005, 09:46 AM   #9
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Charles Daly (KBI) is now importing ENTIRE guns from BUL-Transmark in Isreal. The entire weapon is produced THERE, then shipped over here for Daly to put that God Awful logo on. The BUL-M5, (Daly M-5) is one hell of a fine pistol. The plunger tube is fixed, and PERMANANTLY mounted. No chance it will ever come loose. Just thougt you might want to know....
 
Old 05-19-2005, 10:49 AM   #10
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Thanks Pointman 134. I belive the M-5s have been Israeli made all along. The single stacks are made in the Philippines by Armscor or where you referring to the single stacks as well?
Thanks,
Bill
 
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