rbwayne55

Anyone have an opinion on the best barrel? This is the foundation of a great shooter. WHo makes the barrels for Kikmber, Wilson, Baer etc, Are all the barrels of the same configuration, 1:16 left for instance? research on the web shows most barrels are in the $149 range and some higher than $200. And I am sure there are 2-3 ways to manufacture a barrel.

Thanks

Alot has been written and talked about regarding barrels here. My .02 is that most of the after market barrels are pretty good. I would have to include the following of examples I have shot and liked. BarSto, Kart, Wilson, and Nowlin.
Most, with the exception of the Kart are stainless. Some prefer stainless and I think it really depends on where you live. Preferences between smiths vary. More importantly is the fit. If your barrel was fit to lock up consitently the result which is what most of us judge a barrel by will be very satisfactory. It is rare that most people shoot a .45 barrel to the point of needing it replaced. However, I prefer that mine are able to be as accurate as I am capable of shooting. I know my limitations I don't generally know the gun's. Read and ask questions regarding the different types of barrels. They all have their claim to fame, but one thing is for sure... poor fit=bad barrel, fit correctly=great barrel for thousands of rounds. FWIW.

Jeffro

Steve is absolutely correct. The best barrel in the world, fitted poorly will (in all probability) not last, and not give you what you want. A mediocre barrel that is fitted correctly is (in my opinion) virtually forever. Most reasonable .45 acp loads have low enough pressure and velocity that you would probably be able to purchase a new automobile with the money it would cost you in ammo to "shoot it out".
Most decent barrels will (if fitted correctly) outshoot most marksmen.
This is (of course) only my OPINION.
Best,
Jeffro

rbwayne55

Thnaks for the replies and information. So what I gather is that a good barrel fitted properly is the ticket to a good shooter, and a great barrel fitted poorley is a bad shooter.
Is this the reason that a Dan Wesson Pointman is so accurate from the factory; they know how to fit a barrel? I can see from research that only a few manf gurantee any kind of accuracy and they usually cost a lot, except for the DW Pointman.
I do not own a Pointman, but I have shot one a few times, I do own a Kimber Royal II with a few Wilson parts, and Meprolite Night Sights. It Shoots very Good, but is choosey on the ammo to get good results. I think most Pistols are like that though.
Anyway, some good posts so far. :wink:

Sean Smith

I belive the high-end Dan Wessons use Jarvis match barrels, which are quite good to begin with. Properly installed, they are very accurate.

But if I had to pick 1 barrel maker out of the blue to call the "best" based on my experience, I'd probably say Schuemann with their AET barrels.

Bob Brown

I concur with Sean on the AET barrel. What little knowledge I have of them is that they shoot better than any barrel I've ever used...not much, of course. When a good barrel maker produces 1" barrels, another 1/4" smaller group at 50 yards is insignificant to most people...but not to Scheumann! FWIW, I use Kart barrels in every 45 wadutter Bullseye pistol I make. Some folks like the SS Barsto for FMJ hardball rounds and they do seem to shoot that type ammo better than most. But there again, it's a marginal thing. You'd need access to either a barrel tester or a Ransom Rest to tell the difference.

Bob

kotonk

i was reading thru clark customs' catalog. it states that a match barrel is basically a barrel with oversized lugs and hood...so i assume the quality of the different manufacturers' barrels themselves is not as much factor as the fitting of a barrel by a gunsmith. safe assumption?

also, clark customs will take your factory barrel and weld extra material to the lugs and hood and refit the barrel to the slide. does anyone know why other gunsmiths don't offer this?

according to clark most factory barrels are just as accurate and they offer the same accuracy guarantee on a refitted factory barrel accuracy job as they do with a new match grade barrel that's fitted.

they do have a statement in their catalog stating that springfield barrels need to be tested before they will do an accuracy job on them. anyone know why this is so? i assume the new custom loaded models have barrels on par with other manufacturers, but did springfield have a problem with barrels in some of their previous models?

and while on the topic of barrels, the guy at the gun shop i go to mentioned that smith & wesson barrels aren't that great. i took it more as a statement from an anti-S&W guy, but a month or so back there was an article comparing a walther p99 and a smith & wesson sw99. the p99 averaged better groups. on top of that, i ran across novaks custom shop site:

http://www.novaksights.com/Gun%20Shop/f ... ptions.htm

they offer an option to install a match grade barrel on the smiths. other than the paraord, the other gun manufacturers don't have an option for an "accuracy job".

i'm not trying to bash s&w, but do they have inferior barrels?

last question, is crowning a barrel worth the money?

thanks.

-kotonk

Bob Brown

I don't know what you're wanting to build, but here's some general information. Every test I've done, as well as every test I've read, shows the Kart as being #1 or #2 for accuracy, but usually by only a small margin because most match barrels are very accurate.
On welding barrels. Yes, it is done and it works just fine. Historically it was the norm because there were no "match" barrels with oversized hoods and lugs...and short chambers. I suspect there are several national records still held by welded-up Colt barrels, but those records were shot by some great national champions and whether their scores would have been better with more accurate barrels is debateable. Believe me, the average High Master NRA shooter would have a difficult time differentiating between a 1" barrel and a 1 1/4" one.
One benchmark you could remember is that a finished match-grade 1911 in .45 caliber should shoot no more than 1/4" larger group at 50 yards than its barrel did out of a barrel tester with the same ammo.
And, are S&W barrels any good?? Yes, they are...but not always, just like any other maker's barrels.
BTW, most 'smiths will probably agree that it's much easier to fit a new NM barrel than it is to weld and fit a standard barrel. And, the NM barrel will have a short chamber that we can cut to our favorite dimension.
I cannot somment on the Springfield barrels because I do not use them in a NM pistol.
I forgot one of your questions. If a barrel doesn't seem to shoot as well as it should, crowning just might bring the group into acceptance...but only if the original crown was not cut properly or has been damaged.

Bob

Bob makes some excellent points regarding match barrels and their capabilities. I carry a gun with a stock Colt barrel and it shoots better than I can. However, I CAN feel the difference between a stock fit barrel and a match fit barrel....be it a Bar Sto or a Kart. I live in AZ so a Kart is no problem with regards to rust. Hell, Kimber barrels aren't bad. But if I was going to ask for a barrel to be fit on one of my carry guns I would ask for a Kart or a BarSto. I have not shot the Schuemann barrels but have seen them prior to installation and the look excellent. Point is make sure your barrel is fit properly and make sure the rest of the gun is shootable. FWIW.

rbwayne55

This is some great stuff posted here. Thanks a bunch for all the great Info! :lol:

schromf

Too bad Schuemann doesn't like the 10mm. After reading Seans great write up on his Delta I wanted to put one in my next 10mm project gun. But Sean I talked to Ted and he says it just wasn't worth the cost. A Kart is $160, it is about double that to modify the Schuemann by the time he fiddles with the chamber. The other downside is I don't want a ramped 10mm and unless I am missing something on the website I don't see it.

Personally I think Schuemann is being stubborn about this and I guess I will just have to wait until I rebarrel one of my 38 Supers or 45 ACP's to give them a try.

8)

schromf

Ted,

Concur I have dumped a ton of money in a couple of rifles over the years ( one 30-338 on a Mauser Action, and one 338-478 Weatherby on a Hall action ) Were they worth it to me yes, but in hindsight I could have gotten the same for a lot less.

Ted, how much more accurate is Sean's 10mm? And did you cut the ramp off or did modify the frame? I haven't bought my barrel yet and I am still game if there is gain to be had.

**edited**

The whole point of getting a custom gun is getting what you want, and from reading Seans posts on the subject I am sure he got that.

Sean Smith

Ted got 0.8" @ 25 out of it using cheap ammo. With the same ammo out of other match barrels in 10mm he got more like 1.5ish. I'm sure you could get better groups with better ammo, but as an apples-to-apples comparison it gives you a rough idea.

Now, folks making bullseye guns with Kart or Bar-Sto barrels typically guarantee 1.5 @ 50 (= .75 @ 25). But those figures are with one brand of match ammo or a single specific handload, not cheap bulk stuff like Ted was testing the 10mms with. A more relevant comparison would be match hardball guns, which are typically "only" guaranteed to shoot 3" @ 50 with Federal hardball... using the same Kart or Bar-Sto barrels that give you 1.5" @ 50 with match semi-wadcutters.

With that in mind, the 1.5 @ 25 Ted saw with other match barrels with factory 10mm ammo is right where you would expect guns with good barrels made by a good 'smith to be shooting, if not better. It also suggests (though does not prove) that the AET with an appropriate match-style handload will be shooting right at, or maybe even beyond, the 1.25 @ 50 figure that Schuemann quotes as the original design spec for the AET barrel.

At some point I aim to find out exactly how accurate it is, not because it is necessary but because I'm curious & finding out appeals to the mad scientist in me.

To answer your other question, Ted cut the frame for the ramp. It feeds everything I've thrown at it so far, and does provide more case support than the unramped 10mm barrels I've seen.

So is it worth it? I think so. But I'm nuts. :P

10mm

Ted,

What was necessary in reaming the .40 AET barrel to 10mm? Was it any more involved since you had the fluted chamber with which to deal?

Would a typical Clymer 10mm finish reamer do the job? Any surprises for which I should be looking?

Lastly, did you mark the chamber for 10mm? Or does it still just say .400" or whatever Schuemann uses as a moniker?

Thanks for your time.

schromf

It is the engineer in me that looks for cost comparison studies. I am uncomfortable with uninformed choices ( espcially by me I know better ).

The above being said I think you answered my guestion and you are seeing a definate performance benefit.

And yes Sean that is a mighty fine Delta and I would be proud of it also.

Sean Smith

I can answer these too. Schuemann said that the AET features cause no problems when reaming it for 10mm. Ted left it marked .40 S&W... basically, he could have either removed all the markings, or left all the markings, but removing the .40 S&W and leaving the rest would have been a pain in the ass and looked wierd.

Sean Smith

An interesting thing about the AET barrel, and I have no idea why this is so, but it is the easiest barrel to clean that I've ever seen. Just patches and FP-10 will clean it good as new, even after firing a bunch of cast loads (!). That's quite different from the Bar-Sto I had, which always took alot of scrubbing to get clean. Far as I know it is just made of bare stainless steel, too.

10mm

Thanks for the info Sean. Could you post a pic of the chamber area? How deep are the markings?

Lastly, how about a pic of that thing with the Tripp 10 round mag while you have the camera ready?

Thanks,

Josh

Dave Berryhill

Probably because those barrels have the smoothest, most polished finish on the inside that I have ever seen.

Sean Smith

[quote=Dave Berryhill]Probably because those barrels have the smoothest, most polished finish on the inside that I have ever seen.[/quote:2hta8yf0]

Well, you would know, Dave... you saw my dang barrel firsthand! :P

Tom Freeman

The last two AET I got were the worst internally finished barrels I have ever used. Maybe I got lemons. Wil must hate me.