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Old 02-22-2004, 04:36 PM   #1
dms
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who are the top custom 1911 makers?

I am looking to collect feedback on options in the custom 1911 market. I own 2 Wilson's and think they are awesome. I am deligent in collecting information and was wondering who can shed some light on who the custom guys are, links to their websites, feedback, and options. Looking to establish cost structure and lead time in getting one in my hand, and some finer points to look out for when it comes to the custom market. I am hoping I can find links to some sample pics of some custom work.
Thanks
PS: "I feel the need to blast!"
 
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Old 02-22-2004, 06:39 PM   #2
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You are asking a very difficult question. You can use the search function here to view various pictures. I would not hesitate to buy any of the guns built by the smiths who are members here. You need to look around at the various styles and see what you like. Cost is relative to how much "custom" you want. A full house gun is going to cost you. But if that is the only thing that scratches your itch then you are probably going to pay it now or at sometime in the future.
 
Old 02-22-2004, 07:36 PM   #3
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Of the original AH list of top 10, two are dead, (Swenson and Kelsy), one works less than part time (Vickers), and two don't build for the public any longer. (Nastoff, Krebs) That is if you agree with that list.

That leaves 5 working.

Any list of masters at their craft would start with adding Ned Christianson, who has equaled and surpassed any on the original AH list.

Then giving credit where it is due add Jardine, Morris, Mulkerin, Dawson, Single, Tibbets and CT Brian as the cream of the current crop, actually producing custom pistols.

Take a look around and the list is rather short actually. Ted Yost, Capone's @ Kings, Cladio @ Briley, Novak's, EGW, Terry Tussey, C&S, Dave Luack @ D&L, Ten Ring. There are others, but not many if you are talking 1911 specific and doing exceptional work, full time. I am sure I have forgotten someone, but not many I suspect. Take a look at the APG list and filter out the gun writers, revolver guys, grip makers, finish folks and the list gets really short.

Until the forums I had not heard of Mulkerin, Tibbits, Wild Bill, and others who are here on the forums and by the looks of it building very nice guns. It pays to look around before you decide on who you want building for you.

Taking the bull by the horns here is my list of the best 911 smiths. Of course it is what I called it...my list of most desired 1911 guns by good makers. It has changed over time after seeing the maker's work. In no particular order and I am sure I missed a couple in addition to the ones I mentioned above.

Hoag
Garthwaite
Mulkerin
Christianson
C.T. Brian
Vic Tibbets
Chuck Rogers
Claudio @ Briley
Dave Dawson
Liebenberg
Capone @ King's
Tussey
Ross Carter
Pete Single
 
Old 02-22-2004, 08:18 PM   #4
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Just from my personal standpoint, I would add:

Don Williams from the Action Works
Pete Carber from Custom Arms Co.
Karl Sokol from Chestnut Mountain Sports

All have turned out grade A products for me....
 
Old 02-22-2004, 09:40 PM   #5
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dont forget tom globebenski or something like that, Bob Londrigan

both cater to the uspsa,ipsc shooting community
 
Old 02-23-2004, 03:52 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane Burns
Take a look around and the list is rather short actually. Ted Yost, Capone's @ Kings, Cladio @ Briley, Novak's, EGW, Terry Tussey, C&S, Dave Luack @ D&L, Ten Ring. There are others, but not many if you are talking 1911 specific and doing exceptional work, full time. It has changed over time after seeing the maker's work. In no particular order and I am sure I missed a couple besides the one mentioned previously.

Hoag
Garthwaite
Mulkerin
Christianson
C.T. Brian
Vic Tibbets
Chuck Rogers
Claudio @ Briley
Dave Dawson
Liebenberg
Capone @ King's
Tussey
Ross Carter
Pete Single
Yup, in my humble opinion Ted Yost was overlooked. He should be on the top of the list. The ones he has built for me were nothing short of works of art and done in half the time most smiths take.
 
Old 02-23-2004, 03:58 AM   #7
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Based on firsthand experience I've got to rate both Dane and Ted very highly. Over on 1911forum.com you will hear alot of raves about Chuck Rogers and Don Williams from folks who had guns done by them, too.
 
Old 02-23-2004, 05:43 AM   #8
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"Best of the Best"

This is interesting. I've watched and participated on Pistolsmith for a couple of years now. Whenever the topic of "the best of the best" comes up Dick Heinie is nearly always mentioned. Has he suddenly fallen out of favor? Has the quality of his work suddenly diminished? I'm not trying to start an argument here (truely) but sometimes I think these lists are based as much on politics as anything else. Just my two cents.
 
Old 02-23-2004, 05:44 AM   #9
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Everyone has an opinion. Mine is:

Any list without the names Dane Burns, Ned Christiansen, Ted Yost, John Jardine and Benny Hill left off don't interest me much.

You really need to know what YOU need before a list makes much sense though. There are many 'smiths out there that don't get the fancy write-ups and the pictorials, more, I presume, because they don't kiss ass real well than for any other reason. If that is not the case, then gunsmithing is different from the professions I am familiar with.
 
Old 02-23-2004, 05:48 AM   #10
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matt.45 wrote:

Quote:
This is interesting. I've watched and participated on Pistolsmith for a couple of years now. Whenever the topic of "the best of the best" comes up Dick Heinie is nearly always mentioned. Has he suddenly fallen out of favor? Has the quality of his work suddenly diminished? I'm not trying to start an argument here (truely) but sometimes I think these lists are based as much on politics as anything else. Just my two cents.
Matt, you are a smart guy. Any list talking about custom 1911's and their builders would certainly include Dick Heinie. What typically gets overlooked is the smith's talent behind the machines. Mr. Heinie is a very good machinist as are some of the others.
 
Old 02-23-2004, 06:31 AM   #11
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Morning Steve,

I appreciate the reply, but I'm not sure what that means (maybe I'm not a smart guy). Could you explain?
 
Old 02-23-2004, 08:13 AM   #12
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Quote:
Whenever the topic of "the best of the best" comes up...I'm not trying to start an argument here (truely) but sometimes I think these lists are based as much on politics as anything else. Just my two cents.
You would be correct both from a magazine stand point and from my personal stand point. Although I did attempt to give you a list which I thought was pretty inclusive of the known players.

Make no mistake all the gentlemen I have mentioned or on the AH list have built some very nice 1911s. If you allowed the makers to pick their best and then lined up "that best" from each you would find that each maker's opinion is slightly different on what is "the best". If you were to judge from those same guns what you thought was "the best" you might not come up with the same list as I.

That judgement is what you pay for from the better makers. It is why Ted's guns look different than Ned's or Jardine's look different that CT Brian's.

Anyone with half a clue can copy another maker's work if they have a good eye for detail. So if "the best" was an agreed production you would have a lot of cloned guns. Funny enough you do see that in the production guns and by the newbies in the gun smith world. You don't typically see "the best" copying each other.

I had started my original post assuming that you had seen the top 10 list from American Handgunner in July/August of 2001. Sounds like it needs to be republished to put the comments into context.

The list went like this:
John Yanek
Jim Garthwaite
Jim Hoag
Richard Heinie
Paul Liebenburg
larry Vickers

Steve Nastoff
Kelsy
Krebs
Swenson

You can then add these guys all from my original post.

John Jardine
Mark Morris
Scott Mulkerin
Dave Dawson
Vic Tibbets
CT Brian
Ted Yost
Capone's @ Kings Gun works
Cladio @ Briley Gun works
Wayne Novak
Evolution Gun Works/ EGW
Terry Tussey
Cylinder and Slide
Dave Luack/ D&S sports
Ten Ring Precision
Wild Bill
Ned Christianson
Chuck Rogers
Ross Carter
Pete Single

If you go to COMBAT HANGUNS and look of Walt Rauch's column you see new makers Walt thinks are worth including added on occasion. A few guys have added themselves by posting their own work on the forums. Ask the same question on the 1911 forum, Teddy Jacobsen's forum or the Tactical forum and I suspect you'll get a few more added to this list. Between the guys no longer working and the guys doing it part time you would be hard pressed to break 50 good 1911 smiths in the nation working under their own name. A goggle search ( or a search here on the forum) on each maker's name will give you a start as will the back page ads in AH and CH.

I have either owned, or examined in detail a gun from every maker on these two lists with the exceptions of Yanek, Ten Ring, Wild Bill and Kelsy. Only seen pictures of their work. None of the makers listed here will dissappoint you is my take on it.

Here is a good start on the web sites.

http://www.americanpistol.com/Pistolsmi ... alist.html but, some whom many might consider the best, are not listed there.
 
Old 02-23-2004, 10:24 AM   #13
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A big factor to consider from a practical point of view is, how much of a wait is too much of a wait? Heine won't even let you on his waiting list anymore; you have to basically wait 10 months so you can get on a waiting list that is maybe 6 years long.
 
Old 02-23-2004, 12:02 PM   #14
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I obviously meant to say I have no interest in any list that leaves off the names Burns, Yost, Jardine, Hill and Christiansen.

My brain got tangled with my fingers apparently on my first post. If I was smart enough to know how to edit it, I would. If any mod knows how, I would appreciate the help.
 
Old 02-23-2004, 12:27 PM   #15
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Quote:
Yup, in my humble opinion Ted Yost was overlooked. He should be on the top of the list. The ones he has built for me were nothing short of works of art and done in half the time most smiths take.
I'll second that!! Ted is DA MAN!
 
Old 02-23-2004, 12:43 PM   #16
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What about Hilton Yam? Does he belong on the list? I'm asking because I know nothing of his work other than from his website.
 
Old 02-23-2004, 07:15 PM   #17
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Awesome information and feedback. A few observations: I guess I need to call to find out lead time, and do most of the guys let you pick out the frame, and then they go from there? I am sure custom means I pick most of everything I want, but I am impressed with Dane Burns work. I am impressed how humble Dane was in giving his response, and not listing himself. I know that was a trick question for someone who is in the field of what I was trying to inquire about, but that impresses me. Does Ted start with your gun, and then modify and upgrade it to your liking in contrast to Dane who does offer the full product from the ground up. Ted's website is quite extensive with options, upgrades, and everything one can dream up.
I don't want to wear anyone out on this thread, but I am just contemplating, and collecting all the information I can to see what I might want to do. I guess it is a lengthly and at times could be an exhaustive process in choosing one of these guys who were suggested.
I do appreciate this forum, and the guys behind it, and want all of you to know I do value your feedback as I continue to work through the information out there.
Any other thoughts which come to mind by any of you who are experienced in the custom market, feel free to let me know.
 
Old 02-23-2004, 08:59 PM   #18
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dms,

Sean is right, how long is too long? No real wrong on right answer, just how patient you are with the pistolsmith.

With that said, I don't believe you can go wrong with any of the pistolsmiths that fellow forum members have listed. They are the best at their crafts and are definitely not slap-together-ship-off types. I have only personal experience with BCP, Yost and Novak pistols but I wish I could sample more

There really isn't a "who is best" in this field, rather who can execute the order properly and any of the pistolsmiths listed can unequivocally deliver.
 
Old 02-24-2004, 03:50 AM   #19
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Sometimes I wonder about this whole " Whose the best or top 10" type of thing. I.E. , if smith A builds one a month and takes great care cosmetically while smith B builds 5 a month, doesn't pay the same attention to cosmetics as A does but the internals are fantastic and never misses a beat but A gets all the attention and has the long wait.
How do we judge the guns, like pictures on a wall? Surrounded by expert lighting. Do we ever run them through a 10,000 round course? Just my rambling.
 
Old 02-24-2004, 04:17 AM   #20
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Really, the only useful basis for judging this sort of thing is personal experience. Otherwise, you're just engaging in guesswork and listening to hearsay. Of course, if you don't have one yet, that's your only way to choose a 'smith.
 
Old 02-24-2004, 06:50 AM   #21
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>>"Anyone with half a clue can copy another maker's work if they have a good eye for detail. So if "the best" was an agreed production you would have a lot of cloned guns. Funny enough you do see that in the production guns and by the newbies in the gun smith world. You don't typically see "the best" copying each other. "<<

Well said, Dane.

Therein lies the truth if one looks deep enough. All the Smiths listed have their own 'style'. All build excellent, albeit different 1911's. You need to study each of their individual styles, decide which you like best, and get on their waiting list.

Speaking of waiting lists - time shouldn't really be to much of a factor. You can go to the local gun store and buy a functional 1911. Customs are art, and art takes time. The wait will always be worth it in the end. If you're not willing to wait, you're probably not truly ready to enter into the 'custom realm'.

Nomax on - flame away. :lol:

Cheers, Tim
 
Old 02-24-2004, 07:01 PM   #22
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It's not so much the waiting....it's the itchy trigger finger and
the stockpiling of ammo 8) !
 
Old 02-25-2004, 05:25 AM   #23
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I guess when one finds a smith whose work he likes and trusts he should stay with that guy. Ted Yost has worked on 5 or 6 1911's for me over the years and his work has always been exemplary. He is always cordial and willing to fix that rare thing that wasn't quite right no matter how small...it was always something small :wink: Ted has always been good to answer my gunsmithing questions as I delve into hobby smithing the 1911..ouch! He's just a good guy and fun to deal with. I guess I'd say it's nice to actually meet whoever you choose to work on your pistol too if possible. Put a face with the voice on the phone.
Good Luck,
Mark Avery
Lafayette, Indiana
 
Old 02-25-2004, 08:07 PM   #24
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A friend told me that while attending the Shot Show he learned that Larry Vickers went to work for H&K and is no longer building. Supposedly, he's consulting and/or leading their M4 project. Anyone heard this? Some great pistolsmiths mentioned here. Ted Yost has to be one of the best around, and a nice guy to boot! If it wasn't for his recent, untimely death, Joe Bonar would certainly be on the list. May he RIP. Best regards, SRT
 
Old 02-26-2004, 06:50 AM   #25
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Joe Bonar

I would second the vote for the late Mr. Bonar. He built a custom CZ-75 for me a few years ago that was every bit as good (or better) than any Hi-Power to come out of the Novak shop. The work was superb and very quick! His passing was a large blow to the world of custom pistolsmithing.
 
Old 02-26-2004, 06:13 PM   #26
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SRT, I had also heard the same while attending the SHOT Show. I saw Larry and Hilton Yam both at the HK booth intently working with customers.
 
Old 02-26-2004, 06:49 PM   #27
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Can anyone shed light on the differences between the following: Dane Burns, John Jardine, and CT Brian. I am trying to shed some light on the differences each of these guys brings to the custom market. Their guns are just awesome! As previously stated each custom smith does have a signature, and to me and what I seem to value in appearance these guys are hard to distinguish one from the other. The websites I have encountered our great/informative/and impressive.

I have not began to contact anyone as I am still collecting information, but the main question still comes to mind-Do they start with a 1911 I currently own? or is there the option of starting out with a frame and slide (with their insight as to the pros and cons) as it relates to the overall gun I am envisioning. I have began to establish an outline as to what I think I want my gun to have, the overall look (I will be able to describe when the time comes), and of course weighting in their input as to the "bells and whistles" which would be integrated.

Again thanks again and I am really enjoying this thread and all of the responses.
 
Old 03-08-2004, 06:20 PM   #28
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Does anyone know if any of these Custom 1911 builders live in or near VA?
 
Old 03-27-2004, 08:48 PM   #29
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I am still learning about 1911's... I have owned and shot them since the mid 70's. I have a colt series 70 with Don Williams and feel it is in great hands. The hardest part of deciding who and what is trying to figure out what I really want. I see pictures from ted and dane and sometimes I am just speechless... I never knew that something they did was possible ... or at least I never saw it before. My appreciation for simple elegant functional pistols grows deeper every day. This week I saw pictures of a titanium slide over a stainless receiver and all metal was left in a natural finish... wow !! then I saw the pictures today of Dane's vanilla pistol and the smooth lines and flush fit bushing and barrel and vertical frontstrap lines knocked me out again. How can you ever decide on what you want ??

Even knowing that I like 5 inch pistols and that smooth is a requirement for how I view and run a 1911 I am still amazed at the possibilities...
 
Old 12-04-2004, 08:19 AM   #30
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old subject and new players
 
Old 12-24-2004, 10:16 AM   #31
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Huntercustom should be added to the list. He do excellent work and reasonable.
 
Old 12-26-2004, 07:36 PM   #32
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I haven't seen Stan Chen or John Harrison mentioned.
Ned Christiansen's new "low-ride" solid beavertailed comp gun is a mind boggling example of "pushing the envelope" and setting a new direction for a few to follow......indeed a singular masterpiece.
Jeff
 
Old 01-04-2005, 02:25 PM   #33
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Another very good gunsmith not mentioned yet is Randy Adams at Fireblade Systems. I've have the pleasure of owning one of his custom jobs and liked it well enough to have him build another. He does quality work and stands behind what he does. The only down side is his work is being appreciated more and more and his waiting period is getting longer!
 
Old 06-06-2008, 07:22 PM   #34
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Here are my favorites (in no particular order!)....

Paul Liebenberg
Steve Nastoff (currently inactive)
Don Kehoe
Jim Hoag
 
Old 06-26-2008, 07:02 AM   #35
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Re: who are the top custom 1911 makers?

There's a new guy named Dave Wells whose shop is in PA. He is manufacturing his own line that is on par with Nighthawk Custom and Wilson Combat. His pistols are amazing, the attention to detail and the amount of time he spends with a customer designing each gun is a rare find. The website for his shop is www.wellscustomguns.com but it is under construction unfortunately. I was in his shop last week and he said he'd have new pics and pricing up soon. When I priced out my 1911, I looked at all the big manufacturers and the little guys as well. I picked this guy because his product is outstanding and his prices are excellent (at least $500 less than Wilson and Nighthawk). If anyone's in OH next week, he'll be at the National Match at Camp Perry, you should check him out.
 
Old 01-09-2009, 12:22 PM   #36
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Re: who are the top custom 1911 makers?

Everyone's got fantastic pistolsmiths on their lists. Especially Liebenberg, Nastoff, and Hoag.

But I'd put Don Kehoe (former Liebenberg and Tussey apprentice) in So Cal right up there with those guys.
 
Old 08-13-2009, 06:06 PM   #37
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Re: who are the top custom 1911 makers?

I find it odd that James Clark Sr. is absent from the tread. I guess it depends on whether you want an awesome gun to look at or an awesome gun to shoot. He built his own pistols and developed many of the latest ideas 30 years ago. I agree with most of the lists, I just think Clark should be mentioned.
 
Old 08-30-2009, 03:36 PM   #38
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Re: who are the top custom 1911 makers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by filobeto
I find it odd that James Clark Sr. is absent from the tread. I guess it depends on whether you want an awesome gun to look at or an awesome gun to shoot. He built his own pistols and developed many of the latest ideas 30 years ago. I agree with most of the lists, I just think Clark should be mentioned.
Could have something to do with a persistent physical malady commonly referred to as deadness. Even before this thread was started. Kelsey and Swenson have it too.

I've studied much,talked to everyone I could find, and ordered and bought guns from lots of folks. I even read all the pistolsmithing sites on the net. I've formed a few opinions about lists, and specifically, the who's best lists.

I find most responses have little basis in current market conditions, represented abilities in relation to actual abilities, and in certain cases whether the practitioner is even still practicing or worse, still alive or not. The AH "Club 100" contained so many dead or out of business entities, they don't even display it anymore.

If you're going to list someone as among the best, be realistic. Names like Yam,Vickers, and Heinie always come up. You're not going to get a gun from any of them. Period. They're done. Argue if you want, but produce a gun within a year if you want to win.

Also, rating a smith based on his waiting list is illogical. It can be, and often is the mark of a poor businessman, or someone who's just not motivated to get things done. It's also common among those whose principles are compromised, and spots on their lists are not filled in proper order. Is a great smith who has guns ahead of yours, operates honestly, and does your gun in order less desirable than a smith of equal ability who lets his pals in front of you and claims he's just real busy?

One should also make sure that their choices have earned their reputation, rather than just claimed one, or had their fanboys pump them up on the internet. This is done by providing quality product and services consistently, and for a measured time period. Touting a new guy just because he got your gun right is not doing anyone any favors. How many whizbang flash - in - the - pan smiths haven't even survived this thread?

One should also be looking down the road. Some smiths are doomed to fail. Don't be the guy singing their praises when the music stops, or worse - holding their guns. Either way, you lose. One of the current darlings, who does more trolling for work than actually working, has a network of fanboys, but no skills of his own and no durability. He copies everything the real smiths do and undercuts all their prices. Great marketing plan, but someday he'll have to make a committment to the industry, and he'll fail. He won't be able to open a shop or buy his own machinery, meantime he pisses off every professional in the industry. Wanna bet who's going to be willing to help out an assclown like that when his wheels fall off? Believe it or not, it things like that have an effect on the value of the guns you buy. A smith's actions can cost you money down the road.

The bottom line is, be smart and support the guys who are in it for the long haul. Guys that not only have proven themselves, but their products prove themselves daily. There are some great names mentioned on this list, and some real question marks too. Be careful.
 
Old 09-16-2009, 12:40 PM   #39
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Re: who are the top custom 1911 makers?

astute comment..
 
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