Pistolsmith

Go Back   Pistolsmith > Pistolsmith Forum > Pistolsmiths


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-10-2002, 04:19 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Michigan
Posts: 431
Heinie magwell...any experience?

I am having a Caspian based 10mm 1911 built for carry and am interested in the Heinie magwell- the one where the frame is cut to fit it.

Any of you have any experience with this magwell one way or the other?

Thanks!

Brent
 
Remove Ads
Old 07-10-2002, 05:53 PM   #2
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I've always preferred the Ed Brown style. Similar in application, but the Heinie type has a plate that must be fit under the grip panels, below the bottom stock bushing. It makes the grip panel more difficult to fit, especially if a thin grip panel is used. The extra plate is no doubt there as an overkill measure, which might be a good idea, but it definitely makes the install more difficult.
 
Old 07-10-2002, 06:04 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Issaquah, WA
Posts: 3,830
Never a big fan of bolting on anything, as Heinie does his. I use (when I can't talk them out of it) a Brown or similar style add on after cutting the frame. Then I TIG the entire joint. No much on silver solder or spot welds either. Then I put them on the mill and cut it back down to a managable size for a carry gun.
 
Old 07-11-2002, 04:21 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Illinois
Posts: 122
Heinie mag well

I have a Heinie mag well on a Heinie-built Kimber Classic Custom. I like it better than other mag wells because it adds no extra length, is as solid as a weld-on unit and provides an esthetically pleasing appearance. I really like the way the stocks look with the unit installed. It is apparent that it takes some machining skills to install and it blends perfectly with the mainspring housing. It definately enhances a speed reload.

Each to their own, I guess.

Jim Davidson
 
Old 07-11-2002, 06:40 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Issaquah, WA
Posts: 3,830
"is as solid as a weld-on unit....is apparent that it takes some machining skills to install.."

Never realised a bolt on unit was as strong or as solid as a welded on unit, having built both styles. The machining skills to chop the end of a frame and then drill and tap for a couple of set screws and the grip panel relief are marginal at best. But then it is faster than chopping the frame, welding and the obligatory clean up.

The magwell is a useful addition, how it is best installed is an on going debate.
 
Old 07-11-2002, 10:35 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: AZ
Posts: 458
I actually get confused on the reason for the debate.

Why do you even need the add on magwell, unless we are talking about a "gamers" gun that won't be carried?

The mag changes (in time) for an experienced shooter with or without the magwell are virtually identical. For a pistol that is actually carried, the butt of the pistol is the hardest to conceal. By adding a magwell whether it is an extension to the length or on a cut and welded frame, it becomes more difficult to conceal.

My personal preference has always been to avoid an extra magwell, as no measurable benefit is gained and it just becomes another piece to break.

I actually have a pistol with the add-on Wilson well that can be removed. Most people (with a little practice) that I have let try the difference (with and without) can't see any quantifiable improvement in mag changes.
 
Old 07-11-2002, 04:14 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Michigan
Posts: 431
Thanks for the input everyone.

Ray:

You are obviously at a much higher level of skill than I am- I have a solid B USPSA Limited and Revolver rating and multiple Experts in IDPA- and at this level I find the only way I can begin to keep up with my SV times with a single stack on my reloads is with a magwell.

It must be a Michigan problem- the A and Master guys in my weekend squads have found the same thing to be true. What is your shot to shot reload time with a non-magwelled single stack?

Brent
 
Old 07-11-2002, 05:43 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,559
One of the nicer mag well installations is done by C.T. Brian. He welds on an Ed Brown mag well then trims most of it off so it is covered by the grips.
http://www.ctbrian.com/superwell.html
 
Old 07-12-2002, 05:40 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: AZ
Posts: 458
Brent,

For competition, as I stated, I can see a use. Since I normally don't run a timer to check my shooting, I can only comment on a couple of drills that I remember. (7 yards - paper plate target - draw from holster / concealed - 6 shots to slide lock, reload, 6 more shots - 5.2 seconds all hits in the plate).

Relative to a carry weapon, I still just can't see the point. Just my personal opinion.

Best of luck,

Ray
 
Old 07-12-2002, 11:36 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Prescott, AZ
Posts: 191
Magwells

Jeff Cooper says you should carry an extra mag so you can carry a loaded gun on the way home from a gunfight. I carry 99% of the time but don't carry a spare mag. I will leave the empty gun on the perps chest and have my hands high in the air when the cops arrive. They will confiscate the gun and I will have a hard time getting it back. Mag wells are for the "Gamers" as said before. I bevel the sharp edges on my mag entry point and they work just fine for playing and for practice. I agree that there is no difference in the time it takes for a skilled gunfighter to reload without one or a 5 thumbed clutz with one. I have stuffed a mag in a 1911 1000's of times and I can do it in my sleep or upside down. I love the myth that a $3500.00 gun will eliminate the need for practice. I never told my clients that would work. Watch out for the guy with the old GI 1911 that spent $1000.00 on primers last year! He will kick your Butt! I don't care for either the Ed Brown or the Heinie because you can do the same thing with a $10.00 part from King's Gun Works so why bother? maybe because smiths make money doing these things for people who want to fix things that are just fine as they are.
 
Old 07-12-2002, 05:14 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Michigan
Posts: 431
Dave:

Thats great, thanks for the lecture.

I think the fact is that many of us see custom 1911's as more than just weapons. That people like me, when we save enough money, help gunsmiths do these wasteful things is fine with some of us. But again, thanks for the lecture! Now go back and read my original post and tell me where the part was where I asked for a lecture on gunfight tactics.

Brent
 
Old 07-12-2002, 05:21 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,559
That's why they make chocolate AND vanilla ice cream!
 
Old 07-12-2002, 07:08 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Richardson, TX
Posts: 1,580
Brent,

It is implied. :wink:
 
Old 07-13-2002, 12:18 AM   #14
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4
Brent, to answer your question,

It is not a necessary item but nice.

I always wanted to have a Brown maxi well on a gun. Not because it was needed but simply "neato". I have opted for an S&A to be contoured and blended instead, as the lip on the front of the Brown/Heinie magwell makes clearing a class 3 malfunction difficult if not impossible.

Had the pistolsmith not been an operational user and armorer, this might not have been brought to my attention until after I had something welded to the frame. The huge amount of malfunction training we conduct on our range would have rendered a firearm with a brown/heinie type of magwell useless for my needs.

The installation CTBrian does is among the nicest, but I would have to have it trimmed in the front to fit my needs. Last I heard the Brown version is no longer being made and the closest to it is from EGW. I am happy to be corrected on this by anyone with more current info.
 
Old 07-13-2002, 04:43 AM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Augusta, GA
Posts: 109
Re: Heinie magwell...any experience?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Chambers
I am having a Caspian based 10mm 1911 built for carry and am interested in the Heinie magwell- the one where the frame is cut to fit it.

Any of you have any experience with this magwell one way or the other?

Thanks!

Brent
I guess the 'built for carry' implied it Brent, but then you were able to expound on your skills to Ray, so maybe it's not for carry, but for gaming. You have me confused on that issue, but I guess that's not the point.
I personally am no fan of magwells, and I normally do shoot my carry gun in IDPA and PPC matches with a few exceptions and haven't found it neccessary, but I also am not as well qualified as you are though, maybe a magwell will make me better. Let me know how it works out for you and I may be able to incorporate it into the next class I give.
 
Old 07-13-2002, 08:27 AM   #16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Prescott, AZ
Posts: 191
MAG Wells

Brent; You're welcome! No charge on your bill. If you don't want opinions, why do you ask for them? Must be a Michigan Thing. I thought you plainly stated you were"Having a 10mm built for carry". You will be the envy of all the Government Agents who found them to be very hard to control and extremely hard on the innocent bystanders. Maybe someone in your home state can explain the difference to you about Carrys guns and Game guns. Opinions are only lectures to some.
 
Old 07-13-2002, 09:02 AM   #17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Michigan
Posts: 431
Streetpro, thanks for the input.

Mr. Sample it would seem now my caliber choice (10mm) is foolish too. Hopefully someday you'll come to Michigan and enlighten all of us fools and we can bask in your vast tactical knowledge.

Your need to inform the rest of us of your superiority on a vast array of topics is fascinating. I'll stick to posting stuff like this over at the 1911 forum in the future. Thanks all-

Brent
 
Old 07-13-2002, 10:16 AM   #18
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Sonoran Desert, USA
Posts: 705
Everyone done taking pot shots at each other? Can we talk about the Heinie mag well now? Shheesssh.... more derailments here this week, than an average month for Amtrak. :lol:


DD
 
Old 07-13-2002, 11:03 AM   #19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Michigan
Posts: 431
I'm done! Its my birthday and my wife says I can't use the computer anymore...!

Brent

:wink:
 
Old 07-13-2002, 01:58 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 295
One nice thing about a mag well is if you bang your pistols around like I do it will protect the thin beveled well from getting too beat up.

As much as I think they are cheesy, S&A wells are probably the best for carry because of the the open front.

I have large hands and the Heinie style well removes some grip space for me at the front and I am not sure I like the feel under my fingers....
 
Old 07-13-2002, 10:38 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Prescott, AZ
Posts: 191
Lecture 101

I like the SA too, Anthony, for my toy guns. If you point them up a little and relieve the bottom few lines of checkering, then give them a few smacks with the Big Hammer, they will do quite nicely for us ignorant savages out here in the west. I also like the fact that I can change them back to a stock MSH if I want to and I do that on my Carry Commander. I don't use them as an aid to reloading, but rather as you said, to give me a better grip on the gun. I love the great, gaping holes that the new breed of machinist/smiths do but have no need to do that on my guns. Brent: I spent some time in Plymouth, Michigan in 1956. I left and never wanted to go back. Deepest sypathy for having to live in such a place. You will fit right in on that other forum and they will love having you. We will be very sad to see you go, of course. But I am sure that there is a guy right around the corner building a 50 A&E for a carry gun..............
 
Old 07-14-2002, 06:48 AM   #22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,559
You could have the best of both:

Courtesy of our own Ned Christiansen
 
Old 07-14-2002, 07:40 AM   #23
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Prescott, AZ
Posts: 191
Mag Wells

Dave: Now that is spendid! Very well done and workable. I like it!
 
Old 07-14-2002, 07:51 AM   #24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Richardson, TX
Posts: 1,580
Carbon fiber grips as part of the magwell? That's some neat stuff!

One thought: Micarta grips might be even better than that, alot of carbon fiber grips are just a thick resin on top of a thinner layer of carbon fiber fabric.
 
Old 07-14-2002, 06:16 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 687
Daves (plural), glad you like that magwell! Sean, the CF grips may indeed be a little weak for this, theoretically at least. I have a few out there, two I think, set up this way with CF grips, but to be honest I can't say for sure that they've both had a shload of hard reloads done on them and held up like gangbusters.... anyway I agree Micarta would be better. Although, personal experience with one of my own guns, using walnut grips, they held up surprisingly well.

Check out these CF grips if you get a chance sometime, looking closely. They are but two layers of fiber and the rest is resin. They might not be as strong as some grips, but I have not heard of them being especially weak, either. Anybody? I do like the way they look!
 
Old 07-14-2002, 06:53 PM   #26
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Prescott, AZ
Posts: 191
Mag wells

Ned, nice work. I have a pair of these grips that Gary Smith gave me a few years ago at the Shot Show and I love the way they look. I think they may be tough enough for government work. Don Fisher in Aurora, CO used to make wooden grips that made a mag entry that was pretty slick, too. I always thought that was a neato way to help with the reloads in matches. Very nice work on your part. I am delighted that we have men like you filling in the gap left when many of us had our fill of the 1911 crowd and quit doing that work.
 
Reply

  Pistolsmith > Pistolsmith Forum > Pistolsmiths


Search tags for this page
heinie magazine well
,

heinie magwell

,

heinie magwell grips

,
heinie magwell instalation
,
heinie magwell install
,
heinie magwell installation
,
weld on magwell
,
weld on magwell 1911
,
weld on magwell instalation

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
S&A magwell on Mil Spec Messenger Springfield Armory Pistols 5 03-10-2004 04:45 AM
S&A magwell Messenger M1911 Pistols 9 02-22-2004 02:12 PM
need pic of p13 with magwell badzuki Para-Ordnance Pistols 4 12-16-2003 09:59 AM
Magwell help Tactical101 Workshop 6 02-16-2003 07:14 AM
Heinie v. S&A magwell; which would you choose and why? Nick Weidhaas Pistolsmiths 16 02-03-2003 05:01 PM

Top Gun Sites Top Sites List


Powered by vBulletin 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
Copyright © 1999-2012 Pistolsmith. All rights reserved.