bull barrel colt 1911

Desert Dog · 05-20-2001, 11:39 AM

I am curious how many here would favor a bull barrel in a carry gun? I am having a Brown bull barrel (non-ramped) fitted in a fullhouse project that I intend to use as a CCW piece. While bull barrels (admittedly) aren't as easy to service as bushing barreled guns, they do offer an advantage in the accuracy department. Thoughts anyone?

DD

[ This Message was edited by: Desert Dog on 2001-05-25 12:44 ]

Howardk · 05-20-2001, 12:23 PM

I have a bull barrel in my 4" Kimber Stainless Pro Carry LE (steel frame). The accuracy seems about the same as my 5" Baer. With the weight up front, the recoil feels similar to the gov't model. So, a 5" bull barrel gun should probably have less felt recoil (don't really know since I never shot one) than a bushing barrel. Don't know about "servicing," but once I got the hang of it, the bull barrel broke down faster and was easier to clean than my bushing barrel guns. If IDPA would stop viewing a bull barrel in a full size gun as some exotic competition component it might become more popular.

gyp_c2 · 05-20-2001, 10:57 PM

I like them. While I may have both. My SA Champion and my Detonics both worked fine and I like the feel of the weight and balance.I don't know what you're talkin' about with "ease of whatever" I think less parts is easier personally...With the quality of most barrels being as good as I can shoot anyway, there are lots to choose from and some of the makers are usin' 'em from the factory anyway...SA, Kimber, etc... I don't care about gaming so it's all pluses to me...:wink:

Bruce · 05-20-2001, 11:05 PM

I have always liked the bull barrels. Like to hear what Dane, Richard, Larry, and the other smiths think of them.

Matt VDW · 05-21-2001, 08:07 AM

What's the weight difference between a conventional barrel with bushing and a bull barrel in, say, a 4" length?

Marty Hayes · 05-21-2001, 09:09 AM

When I read the title I thought of my old Mod. 13 that I carried in the mid 70's. God I am getting old...

Steve Morrison · 05-21-2001, 11:56 AM

I carry a 5" Government model with a Schueman bull barrel every day, bull barrels are a personal favorite of mine. Depending on the barrel, there is about a 2 ounce weight increase. This can be offset if desired by carefull component selection and modification, lightening the slide, and/or using an aluminum frame.

Depending on how you build the gun, a bull barrel can be just as easy or easier to service, with or without tools, than a bushing setup.

_________________
MD Labs
http://www.tacticalforums.com

[ This Message was edited by: Steve Morrison on 2001-05-21 12:58 ]

Mute · 05-21-2001, 12:01 PM

I say go with whatever floats your boat as long as it doesn't compromise reliability. If it gives you an edge go for it. I personally prefer a standard barrel but it is nice not to have to deal with a bushing. Oh, btw, I love my Springfield Champion. :wink:

gyp_c2 · 05-24-2001, 11:59 PM

Hey Mute...Are the new Champs bushingless?

...mine's a '99...:wink:

Mattk · 05-25-2001, 08:04 AM

gyp_c,
The new Champs are in fact bushingless. Its a Bull barrel and reverse plug set up on the 2001's

whitebear · 05-25-2001, 10:27 AM

My Champion is a 2000 model stainless, and is also bull barreled. Sweet gun.

Tony

gyp_c2 · 05-25-2001, 10:58 AM

I think we need a club...Sure seeing a lot of these recently...Whatya' think? I wonder who's tried a Brown or Bar-Sto in their Champ?

...here's my old beat up Champ after his return from the "house of pain"...I know all that grindin', chiselin', and stuff musta' hurt...(sure hurt ME to look at it!)

LOL :wink:

_________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>g2<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

..!...then, we fight in the shade!..

[ This Message was edited by: gyp_c2 on 2001-05-25 13:07 ]

Desert Dog · 05-25-2001, 11:43 AM

Uhhummm... drifting back on topic to CUSTOM guns and bull barrels (not that your Champion isn't a swell gun :wink: , but..), I found Steve's comments interesting. By using things like titanium guide rods and a few other trick parts one can keep the weight virtually the same as a stock 1911. That is what Dane is doing on my project. If Steve wouldn't mind, I think some of us here would find it of interest, if you would expand on your comments about both the balancing of chosen components with a bull barrel, and some of the associated service issues that you mentioned you have some solutions for, including doing so without tools.

I should have made the subject line a little broader (I will change it). Also relevant to the disscusion are cone barrels. The Brown barrel going into my BCP project is actually a Brown cone barrel with a reverse plug being used. I do like the way they look when they are flush crowned and opened deeply to protect the rifling.

Burns Custom Pistols Grey Ghost

Viewed from the business end, this sort of muzzle treatment should present a more intimidating threat to the BGs. "Hey, man is that a Colt .55!?!?" :grin:

DD

gyp_c2 · 05-25-2001, 12:08 PM

...absolutely right ...sorry for tracking loss...DUH...happens when ya' get too old...

Jim Higginbotham · 05-25-2001, 02:09 PM

Quote:

<snip>
Viewed from the business end, this sort of muzzle treatment should present a more intimidating threat to the BGs. "Hey, man is that a Colt .55!?!?" :grin:

DD

Unfortunately the muzzle flash will obscure his view of the nifty crown job :grin:

Back to my cave
Jim H

Steve Morrison · 05-25-2001, 08:38 PM

Well, here are a few thoughts on setting up your bull barreled gun.
Start with the top end-

One of the advantages to a bull barrel vs a coned barrel with a flange, is that the barrel does not require a guide rod to support it during the unlocking cycle. If one starts with a bull barrel instead of a screw on cone, the pistolsmith can tune the feel of the gun by removing weight from the barrel. The most obvious example is via fluting, but one can also selectively turn the barrel depending on where the weight is desired.
There are various places the slide can be lightened, both inside and out. The guide rod offers many tuning options. It can be either a standard short rod, or made from delrin, titanium, stainless or tungsten. You can also tune the weight distribution by using heavier or lighter materials on the front or back of the rod.

On the bottom end of the gun there are a few similar options- most involve lighter materials and carefull weight removal from selected areas. Examples include the use of aluminum or titanium frames, beavertails and mainspring housings. These however have the attendant drawback of being less durable under high round count use and in hard use environments.

Keep in mind that in order to keep the weight down and maintanin reliability, the pistolsmith must take a systems approach to weight reduction. Where one adds and/or removes weight can affect the balance and handling charateristics of the pistol.

It is pretty difficult to make up all the weight in any one area, balancing the factors above is part of the pistolsmith's art and skill.

Desert Dog · 05-25-2001, 08:51 PM

Excellent post Steve. :smile: Would you care to expand on the service issues? In particular, I would be interested to hear more about your comment that, "a bull barrel can be just as easy or easier to service, with or without tools, than a bushing setup."

DD

RMLamey · 05-26-2001, 08:18 AM

They shift the balance point too much for my liking. I realize that the 2+/- ozs. could be made up by the use of alloy parts, which would likely throw the balance/feel off even worse (especially if you went with an alloy frame).

05-20-2001, 11:39 AM	#1
Desert Dog Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Sonoran Desert, USA Posts: 705	I am curious how many here would favor a bull barrel in a carry gun? I am having a Brown bull barrel (non-ramped) fitted in a fullhouse project that I intend to use as a CCW piece. While bull barrels (admittedly) aren't as easy to service as bushing barreled guns, they do offer an advantage in the accuracy department. Thoughts anyone? DD <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Desert Dog on 2001-05-25 12:44 ]</font>

05-21-2001, 11:56 AM	#7
Steve Morrison Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Prescott Valley AZ Posts: 126	I carry a 5" Government model with a Schueman bull barrel every day, bull barrels are a personal favorite of mine. Depending on the barrel, there is about a 2 ounce weight increase. This can be offset if desired by carefull component selection and modification, lightening the slide, and/or using an aluminum frame. Depending on how you build the gun, a bull barrel can be just as easy or easier to service, with or without tools, than a bushing setup. _________________ MD Labs http://www.tacticalforums.com <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Steve Morrison on 2001-05-21 12:58 ]</font>

05-25-2001, 10:58 AM	#12
gyp_c2 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Colorado or Louisiana or... Posts: 1,420	I think we need a club...Sure seeing a lot of these recently...Whatya' think? I wonder who's tried a Brown or Bar-Sto in their Champ? ...here's my old beat up Champ after his return from the "house of pain"...I know all that grindin', chiselin', and stuff musta' hurt...(sure hurt ME to look at it!) LOL :wink: _________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>g2<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ..!...then, we fight in the shade!.. <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: gyp_c2 on 2001-05-25 13:07 ]</font>

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05-20-2001, 12:23 PM	#2
Howardk Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 72	I have a bull barrel in my 4" Kimber Stainless Pro Carry LE (steel frame). The accuracy seems about the same as my 5" Baer. With the weight up front, the recoil feels similar to the gov't model. So, a 5" bull barrel gun should probably have less felt recoil (don't really know since I never shot one) than a bushing barrel. Don't know about "servicing," but once I got the hang of it, the bull barrel broke down faster and was easier to clean than my bushing barrel guns. If IDPA would stop viewing a bull barrel in a full size gun as some exotic competition component it might become more popular.

05-20-2001, 10:57 PM	#3
gyp_c2 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Colorado or Louisiana or... Posts: 1,420	I like them. While I may have both. My SA Champion and my Detonics both worked fine and I like the feel of the weight and balance.I don't know what you're talkin' about with "ease of whatever" I think less parts is easier personally...With the quality of most barrels being as good as I can shoot anyway, there are lots to choose from and some of the makers are usin' 'em from the factory anyway...SA, Kimber, etc... I don't care about gaming so it's all pluses to me...:wink:

05-20-2001, 11:05 PM	#4
Bruce Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 988	I have always liked the bull barrels. Like to hear what Dane, Richard, Larry, and the other smiths think of them.

05-21-2001, 08:07 AM	#5
Matt VDW Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ohio Posts: 285	What's the weight difference between a conventional barrel with bushing and a bull barrel in, say, a 4" length?

05-21-2001, 09:09 AM	#6
Marty Hayes Member Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 60	When I read the title I thought of my old Mod. 13 that I carried in the mid 70's. God I am getting old...

05-21-2001, 12:01 PM	#8
Mute Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: People's Republik, Komrade Posts: 934	I say go with whatever floats your boat as long as it doesn't compromise reliability. If it gives you an edge go for it. I personally prefer a standard barrel but it is nice not to have to deal with a bushing. Oh, btw, I love my Springfield Champion. :wink:

05-24-2001, 11:59 PM	#9
gyp_c2 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Colorado or Louisiana or... Posts: 1,420	Hey Mute...Are the new Champs bushingless? ...mine's a '99...:wink:

05-25-2001, 08:04 AM	#10
Mattk Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: central florida Posts: 82	gyp_c, The new Champs are in fact bushingless. Its a Bull barrel and reverse plug set up on the 2001's

05-25-2001, 10:27 AM	#11
whitebear Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Tulsa, America Posts: 24	My Champion is a 2000 model stainless, and is also bull barreled. Sweet gun. Tony

05-25-2001, 11:43 AM	#13
Desert Dog Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Sonoran Desert, USA Posts: 705	Uhhummm... drifting back on topic to CUSTOM guns and bull barrels (not that your Champion isn't a swell gun :wink: , but..), I found Steve's comments interesting. By using things like titanium guide rods and a few other trick parts one can keep the weight virtually the same as a stock 1911. That is what Dane is doing on my project. If Steve wouldn't mind, I think some of us here would find it of interest, if you would expand on your comments about both the balancing of chosen components with a bull barrel, and some of the associated service issues that you mentioned you have some solutions for, including doing so without tools. I should have made the subject line a little broader (I will change it). Also relevant to the disscusion are cone barrels. The Brown barrel going into my BCP project is actually a Brown cone barrel with a reverse plug being used. I do like the way they look when they are flush crowned and opened deeply to protect the rifling. Burns Custom Pistols Grey Ghost Viewed from the business end, this sort of muzzle treatment should present a more intimidating threat to the BGs. "Hey, man is that a Colt .55!?!?" :grin: DD

05-25-2001, 12:08 PM	#14
gyp_c2 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Colorado or Louisiana or... Posts: 1,420	...absolutely right ...sorry for tracking loss...DUH...happens when ya' get too old...

05-25-2001, 08:38 PM	#16
Steve Morrison Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Prescott Valley AZ Posts: 126	Well, here are a few thoughts on setting up your bull barreled gun. Start with the top end- One of the advantages to a bull barrel vs a coned barrel with a flange, is that the barrel does not require a guide rod to support it during the unlocking cycle. If one starts with a bull barrel instead of a screw on cone, the pistolsmith can tune the feel of the gun by removing weight from the barrel. The most obvious example is via fluting, but one can also selectively turn the barrel depending on where the weight is desired. There are various places the slide can be lightened, both inside and out. The guide rod offers many tuning options. It can be either a standard short rod, or made from delrin, titanium, stainless or tungsten. You can also tune the weight distribution by using heavier or lighter materials on the front or back of the rod. On the bottom end of the gun there are a few similar options- most involve lighter materials and carefull weight removal from selected areas. Examples include the use of aluminum or titanium frames, beavertails and mainspring housings. These however have the attendant drawback of being less durable under high round count use and in hard use environments. Keep in mind that in order to keep the weight down and maintanin reliability, the pistolsmith must take a systems approach to weight reduction. Where one adds and/or removes weight can affect the balance and handling charateristics of the pistol. It is pretty difficult to make up all the weight in any one area, balancing the factors above is part of the pistolsmith's art and skill.

05-25-2001, 08:51 PM	#17
Desert Dog Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Sonoran Desert, USA Posts: 705	Excellent post Steve. :smile: Would you care to expand on the service issues? In particular, I would be interested to hear more about your comment that, "a bull barrel can be just as easy or easier to service, with or without tools, than a bushing setup." DD

05-26-2001, 08:18 AM	#18
RMLamey Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Biloxi, MS Posts: 408	They shift the balance point too much for my liking. I realize that the 2+/- ozs. could be made up by the use of alloy parts, which would likely throw the balance/feel off even worse (especially if you went with an alloy frame).