Ken Cook

I've had several Springfields come in to me with inconsistent trigger pulls. One time you pull the trigger and it's a decent 4 pounds or so, the next time it might be eight, etc...

The first time this happened, I tore the gun down and was surprised to find that the ILS did away with the MS Retaining pin and that the mainspring was essentially "free floating" with only the hammer strut to keep it in place.

On a hunch, I replaced the ILS mainspring housing with a standard MSH and voila! No more inconsistent trigger pull. I got the customer to sign a waiver stating that he had no children in his home and that he understood that this pistol no longer had any sort of locking system.

Since then, I've had several more Springfields come in with the same problem and I've performed the same fix on all of them. Worked every time.

For the life of me, I can't really explain this because the hammer strut should be under constant tension anyway. this shouldn't make a difference.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this and do you have any ideas about why this happens?

Ron Kontowsky

Ken,
Have never had the inconsistent pull problem, have quite a few come in for the normal action work. Seems that when you pin it in place there is not enough spring tension to operate properly, seems that hammer strut is a tad to short.
RON KONTOWSKY

10MikeyMike

Ken,

I have a SA Lightweight Compact that I had a similar experience with. I swapped out the MSH, pin and cap for a conventional setup and realized an immediate improvement. I can't honestly say I had inconsistent trigger pulls but, the swap accompanied by a reduced power mainspring "dramatically" improved the trigger pull and feel.

Dave Berryhill

You guys should send those old ILS parts to the President of Springfield Armory with a letter explaining that their locking devices are a liability issue.

Mute

Don't care for the ILS myself but I haven't experience that problem on my SA. It seems to give a pretty consistent pull every time. Relatively clean and definitely very good for a factory trigger.

Kruzr

Sounds like a good idea in theory but having done that, it does no good. I had some significant problems with a new SA and the factory repair department was only partially helpful when they had the gun over a month. I never recieved any response from my letter to Dennis Reese. Something has happened to Springfield's formerly great customer service for warranty work. Its not so good anymore and the wait is up to almost 6 weeks for new pistol repair. It was 3-4 weeks just 2 months ago.

Overproduction in 2002 is my guess at the problem.

Ken Cook

Great replies, guys. Thanks!

Ron,
The first couple of these I saw, the MS retaining pin hole was usable and I merely replaced the MS cap and inserted a pin. I checked the spring tension and everything was fine, maybe you've just gotten a couple with a mislocated hole? After the first couple, the MSRP hole was still there, but undersize and not countersunk. Rather than mess around with re-drilling and countersinking just to insert a pin, I replaced the entire MSH. No problem with this operation on any of them. Hammer struts have all been "spec" on the guns I've seen so far. Go figure?

10Mike,
I won't use a reduced power mainspring as I feel the gain in trigger pull is countered by the loss in locktime. IMHO, it's robbing Peter to pay Paul. Still though, I'll agree that simply doing away with the ILS MSH (enough acronyms everyone?) usually makes for an instant improvement.

Dave,

Damn, I wish I'd thought of that. I always make it a point to offer the old parts to the customer and they all took the old ILS MSH with them. Next time it happens, I'll ask. After I collect up about 1/2 dozen, I'll send them all to Springfield with a nice note about the defective parts I found.

Krusr,

I hate to hear that. American Gun Manufacturers are soon going to learn that patriotism isn't going to keep their customer base from switching to offshore manufacturers who take the time to keep their customers happy.

Bob Buffa

GREAT idea about sending the ILS parts to Springfield. Seems that JMB had a good idea 92 years ago,and we don't need more locks! Just learn to use the gun.
As for reduced power mainsprings,anyone try this trick? Instead, I use an added power spring,26 lbs, It REDUCES lock time,and the only minor draw back I have seen is some folks with weaker hands have to cock the hammer before they can cycle the slide. Comments?

Andrew Reed

Moved to Springfield forum.

Andy

kozaki

Hello all,

These posts brought to mind my own experience with my Mil-Spec Operator. This was one of the first Springfield put out, and the first I saw anyplace, gun magazines included (yep, I came, I saw, I bought).

While fussing with the new pistol, I noticed a sort of grittiness or roughness in the travel of the hammer when I thumb-cocked. I found this strange, and set out in search of the cause. Well, on every other gov't model-type pistol I'd owned, the inside of the mainspring housing (where the moving parts travel) was smooth, or at least not obviously rough. The inside of the ILS housing was VERY rough. And I mean like it had been drilled by somebody in a hurry who only had a dull drill bit. Also, it was devoid of the phosphate finish that was on everything else. I told my best friend, who is a toolmaker, about this, and he said it sounded like the result you get when you drill a hole, and then don't bother to bore it afterward. Or something like that.

Well, I did the same thing that Mr. Cook mentions. I swapped out the ILS unit for a GI housing (arched, ribbed, with lanyard ring). Bingo, no more gritty, crappy feel. The hole inside the GI housing was much smoother, looking like you'd expect. And I didn't trust the ILS system anyhow. It seemed to me like the kind of thing Murphy would cast his gaze upon, and smile his crooked smile.

Mr. Kontowsky, about the length of the hammer strut: ditto. With the slide off the frame, and the hammer forward, there is a tiny amount of play before the strut encounters spring tension. Hasn't resulted in a malfunction yet, so I can live with that.

Hope this helps,

Steve Seech

HB65

After reading the posts on here I decided to check the one out on my Mil-Spec Government model. I found a couple things that were not brought up here. The hammer strut is square on the end that contacts the mainspring cap. It is rounded off, some-what..but not a very good job was done. The cap is being worn on one side because of the rough bore in the mainspring housing. I wanted to remove the locking bolt but it won't budge. Any ideas on how to remove it? I would like to clean up the mainspring bore and polish it, but I don't want to leave the other parts in there while doing it.

Got the locking bolt out..sorry to bother you folks. I will 'clean' up the MSH bore and 'included parts' to see how it does. Thanx.

kozaki

Hope you had some good luck with that rough mainspring housing that was eating the parts in your Mil-Spec. Personally, I would change out the whole thing, and replace the worn parts. However, if you want to keep the ILS feature, you may be kind of stuck with trying to make the old one work.

Let us know what kind of luck you have.

Steve Seech

HB65

I think one could get most or all of the machined marks and rough spots out. I had the mainspring housing bore cleaned up and polished, as well as the cap and retainer. I put it all back together and it felt pretty good, but I just HAD to take it apart again to polish more..stupid attack I guess. Well, the spring plunger went flying when I took the locking bolt out. I found the spring but the plunger was long gone. Maybe the dog ate it..I don't know. But after three hours of crawling around on the floor I just gave up and contacted Brownells. I replaced the complete unit as well as the mainspring, sear spring and hammer strut. I polished more parts and then put the pistol back together. One problem..I now have a trigger pull of 3.25lb. A bit light for me, but I suppose I can get use to it. I ran through all the safety checks and all seems well, no hammer follow. But I have not shot the pistol yet. Will the factory trigger give me a problem with wanting to go full auto? I have not went through the one round..two round..three round and up test. If you folks think there will be a problem, I'd rather fix it now.

Jammer Six

Ken, how do you check the tension of a spring?

I've been curious, I'd like to check the tension of the springs in my milspec, including the recoil, leaf, and main spring.

I have specs for compressed and un-compressed tension, I just can't figure out how to check it.

Thanks!

lindermant

Brownells sells a recoil spring tester:

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/sto...+SPRING+TESTER

halfmoonclip

All-
It is my understanding that the Springer has a heavy mainspring due to a titanium firing pin...(this to avoid muzzle-dropped discharge issues).
Due to the lightness of the pin, it requires an extra-stout wack for relialble ignition.
Yes?
Thanks,
Moon

kozaki

Hello Again,

On the issue of the titanium firing pin requiring a heavier mainspring; the theory behind using the lighter firing pin to avoid a discharge seems to work because the lighter pin has less inertia, and is therefore less likely to indent the primer if dropping the pistol imparts some forward motion to the pin. Less inertia should mean that the mainspring could be made lighter, not heavier, and still work.

Now, on the other hand, a lighter hammer would have less inertia, and since it does the hitting, it would probably need a heavier mainspring in order to reach the same energy figure when it impacts the head of the firing pin.

When I removed the ILS housing from my Operator and replaced it with the GI part, spring included, the spring from the ILS unit looked like the same spring exactly as the GI spring, only made shorter to leave room for the longer mainspring cap required to make the ILS work. Of course, I didn't test it for weight, but I seriously doubt that it is any heavier.

Or do I have the whole theory bassackwards?

Steve Seech

halfmoonclip

Steve-
You are at least half right. The low mass firing pin would have to get moving really fast to ignite a primer, and event unlikey due to its light weight and stiff firing pin spring.
Howerver, my understanding is that the titanium pin has so little mass that it has to be swacked extra hard to bust a cap(see above argument); what it lacks in mass it has to make up in velocity. I realize that it has less mass to put in motion as well, but there is also the firing pin spring to contend with.
How fast would a ping pong ball have to be travelling to do you real harm?
Anyway, that's what I think, but there is probably a reason I didn't have a career at NASA.
Moon

gil moreno

I am contemplating buying a SA Long Slide. I read the thread re: ILS causing some trigger problems. I am assuming ILS means SA's new integrated locking system or something like that which operates with a key device on the back of the frame. I am not to familiar with it. What I would like to know is the quality of the SA Long Slide excellent or just fair? Does it have a ramp bbl? It does not appear to have a bushing on the barrel so, I am assuming the bbl. is coned and fits somehow into the reverse cone on the slide. If this is correct, why is this system not used on SA's 5" models? Help, Gil Moreno

boogie1911

... i have not experienced this my self. i know a few people who have experienced this AFTER installing a reduced tension mainspring. i kinda like the ils because i hope to have children some day... and i guarentee i will still have the springfield!