HEXSITE

[T&T GLOCKS]

Bill…..I’ve again been busy and haven’t had time, but after reading some of this recently, I can’t help but think that Mr JB was directing much of his statements toward everybody else that has posted a comment here. So, if’n you don’t mind, I’d like to respond to some of his observations:

QUOTE:
“Wild Bill,
Since you are the moderator of this board you are entitled to your two cents worth and I generally note that you usually put in about $100 worth. That being said it is interesting to me that the comments expressed in this thread are coming from people who do not have the HexSites on their guns and have never used them. As I have progressed in my life I have found that practical experience and knowledge trumps opinion every time especially if it is something I may use in my own life.”


Well Mr JB, Bill usually puts in $100 worth because he’s “been there and done that” in the weapon world for quite a while. Both the firearm and edged weapon worlds. I’ve been to his shop…seen a lot that he has done..seen a lot that he had a hand in….spent time talking weapons with him…….spent time arguing with him and CONTINUE to argue with him over certain subjects…like front sights. Talked to folks across the country that KNOW his background and KNOW what he’s been into and done. THAT EXPERIENCE counts for a lot when questions are asked about anything that a person has an area of expertise in. And, knowing Bill for the short period I’ve known him, I’ve found that he has a pretty good “BS” detector installed. He doesn’t beat around the bush and will generally tell a person exactly what is on his mind. He is very “UP FRONT” on anything that he says to a person, and if asked a question (which apparently happened in another area of this site and started this whole discussion) will give a very direct and heartfelt answer. If you look at that other area, you will find the first four post were between just two people. One posing a question and one giving an answer. And all of a sudden, OTHERS had to come in and defend the Hexsite. Well….I went to the Hexsite Web site……..and I stand behind my opinion I stated in earlier post here.

QUOTE:
“I am not sure why you have such a negative attitude toward this subject. If it works for the people who use it that should be sufficient. I always find it interesting to read about what works for other people. I teach shooting and I have found wide differences in the people I see. There is no one size fits all solution.”

I, myself recall stating that this sight “might work for some folks” Never said it wouldn’t. But……..I stand behind my other statements that the sight will not cure bad habits. The mental and physical effects the human body goes through when faced with stress have been studied and documented for a lot longer than any of US have been around. So, quoting them while pushing a sale of a new sight system doesn’t carry much weight. Like Bill said….”There ain’t much new in the gun world”. Now, for a new “youngster” to the weapon world that hasn’t spent time on the range, doesn’t know a whole lot, has never been formerly trained……..it’d all probably sound pretty impressive. But, to those that have spent time doing all of the above mentioned……….it apparently was not. Seems like just about everybody on this posting site had a negative attitude toward the system. Not just Bill.

QUOTE:
“You stated you shoot 30,000 rounds a year. I do not and I do not have the time or the resources to use a solution that required me to do that to maintain my skills. I have little doubt that you can out shoot me. Good for you and bad for me if you turned out to be the threat I might face at some time in the future. Time and multiple surgeries have eroded my physical capabilities. The measurement I use is a personal one. If I was shooting at a certain level before using the sights and have been able to improve since using them that is what that is important to me. The fact that you might still be faster than me is not especially important to me as your speed and accuracy does not do me any good. “

QUOTE:
”Citing the top shooters as examples is fine but very, very few of us will ever achieve that level. In my career I have know some special ops shooters that I would pit against these competition guys any day of the week and I have little doubt who would come out on top. However, most shooters including myself will never come close to that level of skill either. Most of us have to learn to work with what we have and to make the most of the physical limits we have. “

Again Mr JB, I’m glad the sight worked for you. But…….how many “special Ops” shooters do you know that are using the Hexsite? You bring up this area of expertise and make a statement to the effect that they are better than the “competition guys”. Well, I’m kinda curious on a couple of things:
First, just how do you think those special ops guys got to be so good? Were they just born with a weapon in their hand or do they continually train and work their skill sets? And, how many rounds do THEY put downrange each year?

Second, did you know that a lot of these “special ops” you mention go to shooting schools? And who do you think teaches these shooting schools? A LOT of them are taught by TOP COMPETITION SHOOTERS.

So, stating that I will never reach their skill level is already defeating myself. That would be placing negative thoughts in my head before I ever made it out on the range. On the positive reinforcement side of the coin, I STRIVE to reach that level of expertise each and every time I practice. I use the top competitive shooter’s skill level as a kind of scale to see where I stack up. It lets me know where I stand and will show if I am improving or not. I constantly tell myself that I CAN do better, that I CAN be as fast and CAN be as accomplished as those “other guys/gals”. So, for myself, I take their skill level and training techniques very serious. And if the top competitors start raving about this new sighting system and I start seeing it take top positions in the competition world, it might carry some weight. But so far, I haven’t seen that. And, like many more posting here, I’ve had a lot of experience with ghost ring, peep, buckhorn, square notch, etc, etc, etc. type of sights. I don’t have to try this new sight to form an opinion. I, like others, have already found what works for me…..and several others around me have followed my advise and greatly improved.

Having said that, I’m NOT discrediting anyone else’s experience with this system. If it works for you, great. I’m not going out and purchase a set to find out. My training is pointed in a different direction than improving the sights. For some, that may not be the case. But from what I’ve experienced, studied, read, seen and heard, at close quarters the “sights” are the LEAST of a person’s worries. When dealing with the sights for CQB distances, the FRONT sight is what is important.

Quick fix for the front sight? WalMart or your local retail store. Hobby section. Krylon paint marker pen. HiViz yellow. Paint the rear of the front sight. Let it dry a couple of minutes. THEN, see if your close quarters game has improved. Bet you catch the front sight as soon as the weapon is presented into your peripheral vision! It WILL greatly contrast against most any target/background you present it to. You will KNOW where it is pointed. Cost of fix? About $4.00. I have several and have painted quite a few front sights on several different weapon systems over the past couple of years, rifle and pistol alike…….so I KNOW it works. I’ve SEEN it work with OTHER shooters that DON’T practice and have very limited skills. And, if it doesn’t work for you, then scrape it off. You are out a whopping $4.00 at the most and look at the experience you’ve gained. If it doesn’t work, then ANY hi-viz front sight probably won’t work for you.

Kinda’ like peep or ghost ring sights. They are all basically the same, and if one doesn’t work well for you, then any “new twist” with that type system probably won’t work well for you. However, if that system DOES work well for your eye perception, then this new system may be the “better mouse trap” you are looking for. They ALL work on the same principle of centering the front sight in the rear optic.

Makes sense to me……..but that is just my thoughts on the matter. I haven’t seen where Bill, myself, or any others have disrespected the experiences of any others here. Most answers or comments are hard, fast and to the point. It may offend some and tickle others.

I’d hope that I’ve not offended you Mr JB. But your comments on your previous post seemed directed mostly toward everybody else that has posted here and not “Wild” Bill. And, in comparison to something else you said, my responses ARE based on practical experience and knowledge with the subject matter at hand. I’ve worked with quite a few sight systems. Probably NO WHERE as many as “Wild” Bill, but enough Law Enforcement and Military type systems to form an educated opinion for my OWN personal weapons. And when I am asked, much as what happened here when Bill started this thread, I’ll give MY thoughts and opinion on whatever the subject is to the best of my ability. And right now, with my current “eye vs sights vs target/threat” perception, I’m not changing or trying this new sight system. I just don’t see it making that much difference vs the Dawson, STI, GLOCK, HiViz, BoMar and several other systems/combinations I already have.

And……..that is my $100 worth……….for now!

[Jim March]

I posted my "Hexsite" experience here:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=28973&p=157721#p157721

I use "Hexsite" in quotes because mine didn't come from Tim Sheehan - it's literally a homebrewed personal-evaluation/use copy based on most of the same ideas...bolted to the top of a Ruger New Vaquero in 357 of all things :). Go there and likely laugh.

But laugh all you want, it works.

I'll try not to repeat myself as I think I summed it up fairly well over there. But let me add this: what the Hexsite concept lets you do is "automagically" line up the gun behind your eyeball without having to think about it, and without having to take your focus off the target.

As one extreme example, on my gun with the cylinder pulled all the way out so I know it's safe (it's technically no longer even a "gun" at that point, not enough parts there to fire!) I can hold the gun in a firm Weaver stance and spin round and round the room at "gonna puke pretty soon now!" speeds, focusing on objects flying around the room, and still line my sights up perfectly behind my vision. And then dry-fire on a target moving past, with what feels like decent accuracy.

Try that with any other sight with the exception of glass red-dots, and your front-sight-focus hold will leave the background a total blur.

As I said in the other post, what it feels like is, your conscious mind is focused on the target (and on threats) and you can let your subconscious track the gun behind your eyesight. You still consciously operate the trigger, but not the gun's alignment - that's already taken care of.

This sight also excels at taking a "flash snapshot picture". You can hold the gun at either a high or low ready, come down onto the target and fire *before* you get a conscious sight picture. This is similar to the "stressfire" type of drill, snapping the gun out to point while firing, yet you can do so with plenty of "combat accuracy" bordering on target accuracy. Yet again, while your conscious mind doesn't have time to operate the sight, your subconscious can - and the Hexsite appears to be tuned perfectly for use BY your subconscious.

Now again: I'm not even Tim Sheehan's customer, although I'm a huge fan and he's given me one-off permission to do parallel-track development on my personal gun.

[Jim March]

Replying so I can subscribe to EMail updates...

[Henry Thiels]

Please describe your accuracy,..."Combat Accuracy".
Do you think the average IPSC shooter could make "A" zone hits with this sight under the pressure of the timer?

[Jim March]

Well my last trip to a "range" was informal desert shooting. I plan on putting it on paper this coming weekend.

That said, with this latest setup (full length brass hood to the front sight) I was knocking beer cans around regularly (left by somebody previous) at 20 yards hitting much more often than not. And this was with fast sight pictures.

So could an IPSC guy use these as you describe? I *think* the answer is, absolutely. But I don't claim to be good enough myself to state for certain based on my own experience. Tim Sheehan of course says "yes" as does Mike Conti and others. I believe 'em but I can't personally attest to it yet.

To find out for sure, I plan on taking this gun to one of the bigger SASS meets in Phoenix as soon as I can. I want to put it in the hands of a high-level competitor who knows how to shoot SA wheelguns quickly (and using typical SASS "mousefart" ammo) and just see what he (or better yet "they") think. And videotape it if possible. That will tell us a hell of a lot.

One other detail: right now, IDPA bans all "aperture" rear sights, period, claiming they're "not street practical". Tim's production Hexsites ARE street practical; the front post is just about identical in size to anything stock and the rear is set up to be compatible with standard holsters and is very low-profile once you see it on a Glock, 1911 or similar. It *should* be allowed in IDPA and there are people working on that as that's the proper testing ground for them.