For the naysayers of the 10mm as a defense cartridge! - Pistolsmith
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Old 08-10-2005, 07:08 AM   #1
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
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For the naysayers of the 10mm as a defense cartridge!

1: The 10mm has too much recoil.

These people always seem to have a either or both a 357 Mag. and a .44 Mag.
Funny how their snubbies with full house .357 loads or their .44 mags. with their bearslayer handloads seem tolerable.

2: 10mm ammo is too expensive.

10mm "cheapie" stuff from the various ammo companies, is about the same cost as the 357 Sig, 40 and 45ACP or only insignificantly higher.
Double Tap Ammo is full house premium stuff that easily compares to and beats in price and performane (IMHO) the other companies so called "full power" ammo costing more.

3: 10mm has over-penetration issues.

McNett's standardized 10% Vyse Brand ballistic gelatin tests (with 4 layers of denim and 2 layers of light cotton T-shirt in front of the gelatin) actually suggests that full power 10mm penetration is actually less when compared to equivalent full power DT (lightweight for caliber, fast hollowpoint) loads in the other popular calibers. And yes, I know "jello" tests are not human flesh, but at least we have a consistent basis to start debating from.

Examples are (all Double Tap factory hollowpoint ammo from your typical G20.):

10mm 135 [email protected] 1600 fps. w. 767 ft/lbs. energy for 11.0" penetration.
40 S&W 165 gr. @ 1200 fps. w. 525 ft/lbs energy for 14.0"penetration.
357 Mag.125 [email protected] w. 710 ft/lbs energy for 12.75" penetration.
357 Sig 125 [email protected] 1450 fps. w. 581 ft/lbs. energy for 14.5" penetration.
45 ACP 185 gr. @ 1225 fps. w.614 ft/lbs. energy for 12.75" penetration.
Source: Glock Talk-Official gelatin results for all of the Double Tap loads.
And we have not even begun to explore the handloading possibilities for the 10mm.

4: All the extra energy from the 10mm does not mean squat for self defense.

See #4 above. Read again, slowly, and weep!

5: The 10mm's heyday came and went.

a.) It was never given a real chance.
b.) It is actually becoming more popular, albiet rather slowly.


Scott
 
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Old 08-10-2005, 07:03 PM   #2
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I'm not sure why you felt the need to say it, but [size=7]AMEN![/size]
 
Old 09-08-2005, 06:32 AM   #3
 
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I always find it interesting that the naysayers never seem to have any experience with the 10mm. Its simply an awsome round and I have always been impressed with it. Although I do agree with the assessment of 10mm ammo being very expensive. $18-25 per box of the cheap stuff is considered cheap where I live in OK if you kind find it. Alot of people ( supposed guns experts in a few of the gun shops I have been in lately) have never heard of the 10mm. Its too bad. However, as a side note unfortunately I haven't been carrying my Colt Double Eagle simply because of lack of available ammo and prices of Colt 10mm's in general. locally.Take care all and God Bless..TK
 
 
Old 09-08-2005, 06:37 AM   #4
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I do find it amusing when I open carry, how many people will ask what I've got there....
and when I tell 'em 10mm, they tell me there is no such thing! I think that's hilarious.
 
Old 09-25-2005, 03:21 PM   #5
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 373
Try answering " It's a Centimeter" and see the blank looks. Actually there was a Centimeter it was basically a shortened 10mm, that ended up being shortened a little more into the .40 S&W. Since I use 1911 .40's that I longload my answer is "Its a centimeter"
 
Old 09-25-2005, 08:55 PM   #6
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I usually pull a round out of one of my spare mags and say: "think of
it as a 9mm, this 'uns a wee bit bigger...." :wink:
 
Old 07-15-2006, 11:33 PM   #7
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 7
Hehehehe...

I love that question too!

"Yo, dog, that a nine?"
"Actually, it's a TEN millimeter."
"No s**t! Never seen wunna them."
"Made just for taking out homies with NINES."
"No s**t," nervously.
"No s**t. It's more powerful than a forty-five."
"D**n, dog, that's hardcore."
"Not really, just life."

Hahahaha!!! That's just one of many permutations that discussion has taken. I always get a chuckle out of it!

-Lee E. Murphy III
 
Old 12-05-2006, 11:15 AM   #8
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Re: For the naysayers of the 10mm as a defense cartridge!

Gunfan;

Consider this more as discussion and perspective on your points, rather than argument.

1. Recoil: I would agree with your analogy as far as it goes. Recoil - or rather its management, is easily measurable for the individual, with the timers available to us today. Shoot 5 shots as fast as you can keep them in a 5" group (Ed McGivern's "hand-sized-group") at 5 yards and time it from the first shot to the last. Either compare times or, even simpler, see how many you can get into the group in 1 second (penalize yourself for shots outside the group). With a 1911 in 10mm I can certainly beat the .357 and .44s you mention. With my Glock 20 I can match them. But both fall short of my control with a .45 ACP or a .45 ACP+P (not with a .45 Super though). Each person has to measure his own however (BTW, if it is less than 4-5 shots a second, then the differences between cartridges is somewhat moot, start practicing!).

2. Expensive. I guess availablility might be an issue but your are right, you just gotta find it. Actually, I have found a few deals on 10mm ammo becuse it did not sell well for the seller.

3. over-penetration: Spot on.

4. Extra energy: Too hot a topic to cover briefly but my vote is that energy (including well over 1500 ft. lbs) doesn't mean squat as far as stopping aggressors. That does not mean a 10mm is not effective (however both cases that I have looked into here were failures to stop with multiple hits). I have not shot anything with D-T (Mike was kind enough to send me some) but I have clocked it and have some experience on game with the 10mm - D-T stuff looks pretty darn good, but energy isn't the reason.

5. Heyday: I don't know about given a chance, I guess everything that makes the market has a chance but I think I understand. Dixon and Dornhaus left a bad taste I certainly hope you are right about the "b" part. It is too good a cartridge to die.

Best regards,
Jim H.
 
Old 12-05-2006, 03:07 PM   #9
 
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I've been thinking about adding a ten to my collection just to be contrary, as such is my nature.
 
Old 12-11-2006, 07:11 PM   #10
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Thanks to a couple of friends who dragged me kicking and screaming :wink: to one of the nearby gambling boats last week, I won enough money to buy myself a low miles used Glock model 20 and some spare mags.

It joins a Delta Elite in the "autoloading handcannon" section of my firearm collection. Lotsa power here with either but recoil managable with all loads I've played with.

Already found out that this Glock chronographs faster than the Colt; due to their polygonal rifling (?) this seems like a common thing among the Glocks versus brands of comparable barrel length, across a spectrum of four calibers I've done that experiment with.
 
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