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Old 08-18-2003, 12:33 PM   #1
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 35
Just one commercial round for defense

Any suggestions on just one commercial round for defense. I shoot 230 fmj's for the range in both a LW Commander and a 5 inch standard size 1911. I have read so often how the FMJ is wanting (still hard to believe) what HP is the current favorite? BTW I used to hand Load " the flying ash can" speers have they fallen out of favor and are they available in a commercial load?
 
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Old 08-18-2003, 01:47 PM   #2
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 870
Defense Loads

Howdy Webley,

The 200-Grain "Flying Ashtray" is available. Ask for Speer Lawman
200-grain JHP. It's also available in the Blazer line for lower-cost
practice and sighting checks.

I'm one of those who doesn't buy into the theory that good old 230
hardball is "lacking" in the effectiveness department. Anybody who
has seen what it will do to a human body at 10 feet would be shocked,
especially if bone is hit. FWIW, I carry PMC Ball as a defensive load.
If the reports that it's a 65% one-shot stopper are true, I'll just shoot twice.
That's 130%... :P

Cheers!
JT
 
Old 08-18-2003, 01:54 PM   #3
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 251
Federal Personal Defense 165 gr at 1105 from my Commander.
 
 
Old 08-18-2003, 04:17 PM   #4
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Winkler
Federal Personal Defense 165 gr at 1105 from my Commander.
My personal experience with that round has been very poor, hopefully yours is much better. IMO you can do a lot better than that round.
 
Old 08-18-2003, 04:48 PM   #5
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 251
How many people have you shot with it? The human body is basically a balloon full of fluid, and I'm not trying to shoot thru a car door or bullet proof glass!!! I think it will do the job quite nicely.

The last person I shot with 230 grain Federal Hydroshok suffered greatly, but the wound was a through and through...
 
Old 08-18-2003, 06:16 PM   #6
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 288
I've been using Speer 200gr +P Gold Dots and Remington 185gr +P Golden Sabers.

Never shot anybody with either of them but I bet it'd hurt like hell. :lol:
 
Old 08-18-2003, 10:19 PM   #7
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Winkler
How many people have you shot with it? The human body is basically a balloon full of fluid, and I'm not trying to shoot thru a car door or bullet proof glass!!! I think it will do the job quite nicely.

The last person I shot with 230 grain Federal Hydroshok suffered greatly, but the wound was a through and through...
I've shot nothing but paper with it, I hope I never have to shoot anyone but if I did I better hit them with the first shot because I'd be BLIND after that first shot. For something labeled Personal Defense I would have expected them to use flash retardant powder. It's also not the most accurate performer for me in my 1911. I will have to differ with you and your balloon analogy.

If it works for you, I'm glad. You might be pleased to find it on sale most places I've seen are trying to get rid of it too. :roll:

Here's a link for $11 a box
http://www.ammoman.com/webstore_45.htm
 
Old 08-19-2003, 04:30 AM   #8
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 251
Well, at the risk of being slammed by the Moderators.

My response is a personal one, based on my personal observations, opinions, and experiences, just like every other response you get on this topic. I'm sure that if you asked the same question on a LEO forum, you would probably get a different answer, as everyone has different requirements.

Your personal expectations concerning accuracy and muzzle flash are just that; personal. You can always roll your own. It functions in my carry gun, shoots into 2" at 25 yds, and the terminal ballistics published by the maker say it should do what I need it to do. Since the DPS reports show that the majority of gunfights take place at less than 5 yds, practical accuracy is not a factor, for me. I will be in my truck and gone if I get the chance, but if not, it will probably be up close and personal.

I am not a physician, but the human body is more than 90% liquid, and if that isn't the equal of a balloon filled with water, what is, maybe a 200 pound apple; I don't know. Chuck Taylor who has trained more than 25000 students, also uses fmj ball ammo, like Mr. Travis...so take your pick. I would suggest you read the Marshall - Sanow Report on gun shot wounds, if you have not done so, it might help you make up your mind.
 
Old 08-19-2003, 06:03 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Richardson, TX
Posts: 1,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Winkler
Your personal expectations concerning accuracy and muzzle flash are just that; personal.
True enough, but "not being blinded by muzzle flash when it's dark out" is a pretty sound requirement.

Quote:
Since the DPS reports show that the majority of gunfights take place at less than 5 yds, practical accuracy is not a factor, for me
Preparing for the easiest situation (in terms of hardware performance) is poor judgement IMHO.

Quote:
I am not a physician, but the human body is more than 90% liquid, and if that isn't the equal of a balloon filled with water, what is, maybe a 200 pound apple; I don't know.
Actually, the human body is around 50-60% water by weight. The main problem with your analogy is that the body is not homogeneous. Bones and muscles aren't very much like water baloons or apples.

Quote:
I would suggest you read the Marshall - Sanow Report on gun shot wounds, if you have not done so, it might help you make up your mind.
I'd suggest citing a source with some credibility. M&S's "statistics" are a joke.
 
Old 08-19-2003, 06:15 AM   #10
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 223
I have a question on the ms stats. When they first came out everone seemed to think they were great now I'm starting to hear more and more how they are way off base, and I'm really starting to question them myself. Could someone tell me where I missed the boat?
Thanks
 
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