eaa 38 super

bobclevenger · 03-20-2012, 07:39 PM

OK, I took my pistols out to the range today and collected some preliminary data.
Each test was only 5 rounds (just enough to have my chrono calculate the Standard Deviation -- for what that's worth).

As a baseline I ran 5 rounds of Winchester White Box 125 gr. JSP through each gun.

Load: 9x23 Factory WWB
Pistol: EAA Witness (steel)
Barrel length: 4.5"
MV: 1431
SD: 19
ME: 568.3
PF: 179

Load: 9x23 Factory WWB
Pistol: EAA Witness Compact (steel)
Barrel length: 3.6" (Mag-Na-Ported)
MV: 1347
SD: 17
ME: 503.6
PF: 168

So you can see that the WWB stuff is pretty good ammo and makes Major PF for most organisations. You can also see that the shorter barrel and porting costs 84 fps or about 6%.

Next are my test loads. Both were shot out of the 4.5" barrel.

Cartridge: 9x23
Powder: 9.8 gr HS-6
Bullet: 125 gr. Cu-plated lead.
Primer: SR
Case Win.
MV: 1363
SD: 23
ME: 515.6
PF: 170

Cartridge: .38 Super
Powder: 8.5 gr. HS-6
Bullet: 125 gr Cu-plated lead
Primer: SP
Cases: Mixed
MV: 1167
SD:27
ME: 378
PF: 146

Both cartridges functioned well in both Witnesses with no problems at all. Recovered brass looks fine. Both pistols have their original .38 Super barrels. I have installed shock buffers from Buffer Technologies in both guns.

I guess it's time to go to the next step.

retDAC · 03-20-2012, 10:51 PM

9x23s in .38 Super barrels - impressive. Thanks much.

bobclevenger · 04-09-2012, 04:56 PM

OK, I just completed the "next step" at the range today.

Chronograph was about 15-20 feet from the muzzle in all cases.

Cartridge: 9x23
Pistol: EAA Witness (steel frame) .38 Super
Barrel length: 4.5"
Powder charge: 10.5 gr. HS-6
Bullet: 125 gr. Copper-plated lead truncated cone.
Primer: Small Rifle
Case: Winchester
MV:1605 fps
SD:7
ME:715
PF:201

Yes, I truly consider this a MAXIMUM load.

It works in my pistol. It may not work in yours. Start lower and work up slowly. Primers are rather flattened, but the cases still fit back into the chamber after recovery. No bulges or stress lines.

This load truly gives .357 Magnum performance in an auto pistol that carries 17 rounds in the magazine!

I tried a hotter load, but it was too hot. The first round fired fine but would not extract. I had to drive the case out of the chamber with a rod. The extractor tried to do its job; there was an extractor-sized chunk of brass yanked right out of the rim.

Not tellin' how much powder that was.

Other than the gouged rim, the brass looked fine -- I'm really appreciating that Winchester 9x23 brass!

I also worked up another .38 Super load while I was at it. I have a fair supply of Winchester 231 powder, so I tried it.

Cartridge: .38 Super Auto.
Pistol: EAA Witness (steel frame) .38 Super
Barrel length: 4.5"
Powder charge: 6.0 gr. Winchester 231
Bullet: 125 gr. Copper-plated truncated cone
Primer: Small Pistol (Magnum)
Case: Mixed
MV:1170
ME:380
SD:38
PF:146

The high SD is probably due to the mixed cases. This is a pretty good .38 Super load if you have a bunch of 231 sitting around. I wouldn't try to push 231 to any higher power in the .38 Super though. Primers were flattened a bit. Cases look like they'll have a nice long life.

Next step will have to be testing the 9x23 load out of a 3.6" ported barrel...

retDAC · 04-13-2012, 07:42 PM

"This load truly gives .357 Magnum performance in an auto pistol that carries 17 rounds in the magazine!"

Wrong - it EXCEEDS factory .357 Magnum performance in that barrel length.

Unless you're referring to handloaded .357s maybe. ;>)

bobclevenger · 04-13-2012, 09:32 PM

Well, I was giving the .357 the benefit of the doubt. I am sure that handloaded .357's can exceed what I have gotten from my 9x23, (heck, I have .38-40 loads that exceed it) but I am happy with it.

retDAC · 04-15-2012, 07:19 PM

If you're getting an honest 1600 fps with a 125gr bullet out of a 4.5" barrel and no excessive wear on the gun, I am impressed!

bobclevenger · 04-15-2012, 09:23 PM

Well, that's what my chrono says. I haven't put all that many rounds through the gun --- I suppose time will tell.

03-20-2012, 07:39 PM	#1
bobclevenger Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 17	9x23 & .38 Super loads in EAA Witness OK, I took my pistols out to the range today and collected some preliminary data. Each test was only 5 rounds (just enough to have my chrono calculate the Standard Deviation -- for what that's worth). As a baseline I ran 5 rounds of Winchester White Box 125 gr. JSP through each gun. Load: 9x23 Factory WWB Pistol: EAA Witness (steel) Barrel length: 4.5" MV: 1431 SD: 19 ME: 568.3 PF: 179 Load: 9x23 Factory WWB Pistol: EAA Witness Compact (steel) Barrel length: 3.6" (Mag-Na-Ported) MV: 1347 SD: 17 ME: 503.6 PF: 168 So you can see that the WWB stuff is pretty good ammo and makes Major PF for most organisations. You can also see that the shorter barrel and porting costs 84 fps or about 6%. Next are my test loads. Both were shot out of the 4.5" barrel. Cartridge: 9x23 Powder: 9.8 gr HS-6 Bullet: 125 gr. Cu-plated lead. Primer: SR Case Win. MV: 1363 SD: 23 ME: 515.6 PF: 170 Cartridge: .38 Super Powder: 8.5 gr. HS-6 Bullet: 125 gr Cu-plated lead Primer: SP Cases: Mixed MV: 1167 SD:27 ME: 378 PF: 146 Both cartridges functioned well in both Witnesses with no problems at all. Recovered brass looks fine. Both pistols have their original .38 Super barrels. I have installed shock buffers from Buffer Technologies in both guns. I guess it's time to go to the next step.

04-09-2012, 04:56 PM	#3
bobclevenger Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 17	OK, I just completed the "next step" at the range today. Chronograph was about 15-20 feet from the muzzle in all cases. Cartridge: 9x23 Pistol: EAA Witness (steel frame) .38 Super Barrel length: 4.5" Powder charge: 10.5 gr. HS-6 Bullet: 125 gr. Copper-plated lead truncated cone. Primer: Small Rifle Case: Winchester MV:1605 fps SD:7 ME:715 PF:201 Yes, I truly consider this a MAXIMUM load. It works in my pistol. It may not work in yours. Start lower and work up slowly. Primers are rather flattened, but the cases still fit back into the chamber after recovery. No bulges or stress lines. This load truly gives .357 Magnum performance in an auto pistol that carries 17 rounds in the magazine! I tried a hotter load, but it was too hot. The first round fired fine but would not extract. I had to drive the case out of the chamber with a rod. The extractor tried to do its job; there was an extractor-sized chunk of brass yanked right out of the rim. Not tellin' how much powder that was. Other than the gouged rim, the brass looked fine -- I'm really appreciating that Winchester 9x23 brass! I also worked up another .38 Super load while I was at it. I have a fair supply of Winchester 231 powder, so I tried it. Cartridge: .38 Super Auto. Pistol: EAA Witness (steel frame) .38 Super Barrel length: 4.5" Powder charge: 6.0 gr. Winchester 231 Bullet: 125 gr. Copper-plated truncated cone Primer: Small Pistol (Magnum) Case: Mixed MV:1170 ME:380 SD:38 PF:146 The high SD is probably due to the mixed cases. This is a pretty good .38 Super load if you have a bunch of 231 sitting around. I wouldn't try to push 231 to any higher power in the .38 Super though. Primers were flattened a bit. Cases look like they'll have a nice long life. Next step will have to be testing the 9x23 load out of a 3.6" ported barrel... Last edited by bobclevenger; 04-09-2012 at 04:58 PM.

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03-20-2012, 10:51 PM	#2
retDAC Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: near Huntsville, Ala. Posts: 707	9x23s in .38 Super barrels - impressive. Thanks much.

04-13-2012, 07:42 PM	#4
retDAC Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: near Huntsville, Ala. Posts: 707	"This load truly gives .357 Magnum performance in an auto pistol that carries 17 rounds in the magazine!" Wrong - it EXCEEDS factory .357 Magnum performance in that barrel length. Unless you're referring to handloaded .357s maybe. ;>)

04-13-2012, 09:32 PM	#5
bobclevenger Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 17	Well, I was giving the .357 the benefit of the doubt. I am sure that handloaded .357's can exceed what I have gotten from my 9x23, (heck, I have .38-40 loads that exceed it) but I am happy with it.

04-15-2012, 07:19 PM	#6
retDAC Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: near Huntsville, Ala. Posts: 707	If you're getting an honest 1600 fps with a 125gr bullet out of a 4.5" barrel and no excessive wear on the gun, I am impressed!

04-15-2012, 09:23 PM	#7
bobclevenger Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 17	Well, that's what my chrono says. I haven't put all that many rounds through the gun --- I suppose time will tell.