Tokarev conversion? - Pistolsmith
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Old 04-09-2002, 08:42 AM   #1
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 89
Tokarevs come with 9x19 barrels and 7.62x25mm barrels. The 7.62x25 cartridge is 1.3" OAL.

I think all I need to do is ream out the chamber and throat on a 9mm barrel and it should work. The bottle neck might be easier to feed. The worst thing that can go wrong is that I need to restrict the OAL all the way back to 1.169". No, it could be worse. The 9x23 case may get in the way.

I think I will try that today and see if it feeds.
 
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Old 04-09-2002, 02:17 PM   #2
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 89
OK

I got it cycling 9x23 dummies.

Now to load some ammo and test it.
 
Old 04-09-2002, 02:47 PM   #3
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 89
OK
I shot it.
I loaded up 8 gr 3n37 with 130 gr FMJ RN, 1.3" OAL.

It seems to feed and shoot just fine.

I used a T drill [.358"] for a throater, a real throater would be tapered and .356" at the back.

I used a .380" staight reamer {$17 from J&L][because I had it lying around] for the chamber extension. A real 9x23 reamer would have been ~.382 ~.384" at the mouth.

There you have it, a 9x23 for no cost and a couple hours effort.
 
 
Old 04-09-2002, 03:15 PM   #4
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 87
Sounds interesting but is it safe for the commercial 9x23 Winchester loads? Maybe the 9x23 Largo rounds would be a better commercial load to use.
 
Old 04-09-2002, 03:56 PM   #5
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 89
There is anothr pistol stronger than a Tokarev?
 
Old 04-09-2002, 07:36 PM   #6
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 951
Clark
9x23 Nowlin has a good bit of freebore. 9z23 Winchester has more.How much free bore did you use?Have you made a chamber cast of this?(cerrosafe)Like your thinking on this one. Have no idea how strong the Tokerev is.Could possibly give new meaning to the term...38 SUPER FACE.
Thanks
Bill Caldwell
Wild Bill Tactical Weaponry
 
Old 04-10-2002, 04:30 AM   #7
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Richardson, TX
Posts: 1,580
Tokarevs aren't particularly strong. The Czechs came up with the CZ-52 (roller-locked & all) to handle their hotter version of the 7.62x25 caliber. And something tells me that former Soviet metalurgy isn't going to knock your socks off, either. Remember, too, that 7.62x25 is still less powerful than 9x23 by a pretty substantial margin.
 
Old 04-10-2002, 07:47 AM   #8
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 89
Bill,
The .357- gauge pin will go in 1.37", so there is plenty of throat. My Cerosafe pouring has not been good in other guns

I am trying to get accurate arms to change thier load book. Someone sent them a CZ52 and they measured Tokarev ammo from around the communist block and made up 42k cup loads with aa powder. I have plenty of CZ52s and Tokarevs to donate to aa for proof testing. So far they have not responded, unless changing the aa#9 product to be wimpier counts.

I have overloaded countless guns, and the CZ52 is the only dangerous gun in a .1 gr work up. AND it is also has the smallest safety margin I have measured 1~17%.

The Tokarev, on the other hand, is a normal gun with normal safety margin, and the brass gives up first, like a normal well designed gun.

The CZ52 faliure mode is the barrel splits and that splits the slide and the extactor pieces go ballistic. Here is a thumbnail stress analysis I did of the 9x23 in a Tokarev for that failure mode:

the walls in the chamber of a Tokarev .125" thick

the walls in the barrel of a Tokarev .062" thick

The formula for thin wall hoop stress is S=[chamber
Pressure][ID]/2[thickness of walls]

Assume 4140 steel heat treated.

If heat commercially treated and quenched 4140 steel has an ultimate
maximum tension yield strength of 180ksi,

[URL=http://et.nmsu.edu/~etti/winter99/manufacturing/kollmer/kollmer.html]

Then the max chamber pressure for a Tokarev may be calculated:

Pmax[Tok]ch = S[2][thickness or walls]/[ID]
Pmax[Tok]ch= 180ksi[2][.125"]/.39"= 115,000 psi

This must be added to the pressure capacity of the brass:
Pbrass = S[2][thickness or walls]/[ID]= 66ksi [2][.035]/[.39
-(2).035]=14kpsi

The Tokarev chamber would then fail at 129,000 psi


Pmax[9mm Tokarev]barrel= S[2][thickness or walls]/[ID]=
180ksi[2][.062"]/.355"=63kpsi

The Tokarev barrel would then fail at 63,000 psi


The bullet must travel appox 1.5" before the pressure is on the thin barrel walls that are unsuported by the chmaber proximity.
QUICKLOAD shows a pressure vs bullet travel of about 75% of peak pressure at 1.5" travel. That would imply a peak allowable of 84k psi





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Clark on 2002-04-10 07:54 ]</font>
 
Old 04-10-2002, 10:09 AM   #9
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 86
I think you're being a bit optimistic on the heat treat and alloy that the Russians used. If you doing this remote fire, by all means. Let us know how it works out. Semper Fidelis...Ken M
 
Old 04-10-2002, 11:57 AM   #10
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 89
I tried 10 gr 3N37 and 130 gr FMJ RN, 1.3".
The primer falls out of the Win9x23 brass.

I tried 11.5 gr N105, 130 gr FMJ RN, 1.3".
The load has more power that the other, but the case is full and I can't go higher.

Seems to feed just fine with round nose, I should try some hollow points.
 
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