|03-31-2005, 06:57 PM||#11|
Join Date: Feb 2005
Not trying to be macho or anything, but to me the recoil of the 10mm and the 9x25 is mostly hype by the gun writers. I bought the first colt 10 and have loved them since.
When us old farts (well I'm only 45, been a cop 21) started we were all shooting 357 in the Smith K frame. The Remmington 125 and 158 loads were so hot that when we were finishing the firing course, the ejectors would stick in some guns and you did not want to touch the cylinders at all. But everyone qualified, women too.
A few years after we switched to .45's, all of a sudden people were talking about recoil problems for shooters and they switched to the 40. The 357 had way more recoil than anything we have ever carried. I don't know if recoil just became more PC or it was other factors.
On the rifle issue, the tissue damage reports from the short barrel .223 entry weapons compared to the MP5 are very intersting. They give the edge to the 9mm as the 223 bullets don't work at the reduced velocity. I personally am not a 9mm fan, but I haven't seen too many under stress who let off with much less than a 4-5 round burst. That changes the 9mm quite a bit. The 10mm and 9x25 are great light carbine rounds with little recoil and good terminal ballistics.
Thank you for my rant today.
|04-01-2005, 07:35 AM||#12|
Join Date: Mar 2004
Well there are a lot of folks that feel that just because it is a rifle it will work better. We had up until last year a lot of guys still using FMJ from their 223 rifles and had the mind set that it would explode on impact in CQB. They have hit humans with that round and seen it with their own eyes but still were bull headed. I helped them to see the difference with the help of the county coroner of what a good ballistic tip bullet was capable. No handgun round I have ever scene would match that even from a 16" barrel with is what we use for entry. The smaller ones I can't speak on. I have told them if we go under a 16" barrel on our weapons it needs to be a MP5 9mm or 40 SW and we have those as well. I think that if a 9mm out performs the 223 from a short barrel (less than 16") which I think is possible then a 9mm on crack like the 9X25 would be tuff to deal with. Just my 2 cents again.
|04-01-2005, 08:18 PM||#13|
Join Date: Feb 2005
My point exactly, when you get down to an 11 or 9" barrel in a 223, you might as well switch to the MP, because you are not getting the bullet performance you think you are, of course you might set them on fire with the muzzel blast. The big difference in an entry weapon is that you want him stopped. Now. Realizing a bunch of 223 out of the short barrel will do the trick, but in a semi auto gun, not ideal. If you are shooting him at range and you but a small hole in a vital area and let them crawl off to expire, well that is a different topic. In LEO work, we just don't have the engagement rules for that.
Shooting the double tap 10mm out of a carbine is a pretty impressive little round as I imagine the 9x25 would also be. It is certainly not a battle rifle, but a nice close quarters package with little recoil or muzzel blast and nice energy. I don't like 9mm unless it is in a subgun, but the 10 adn 9x25 up the factor quite a bit.
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|06-05-2005, 06:37 PM||#14|
Join Date: Jun 2005
I realize that I am new here but...
There are many options carbine wise for entry guns but lets get back to the original premise here, the 9x25 as a handgun round for L.E. ... Hasn't anyone considered one of the primary reasons the .357mag was replaced in law enforcement? It wasn't that the mythical magical 'nine' had greater capacity, it was OVER PENETRATION. Any round booking out at near rifle velocity has the risk of punching through and through, on the perp as well as walls behind them.
I've been out of the business quite a while, but I HAVE done a substantial amount of work for 5 different Agencies here in Milwaukee, and bystander saftey is always was the primary concern.
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