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Old 10-13-2011, 01:10 PM   #1
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Location: Flood City, PA
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Self Defense carry ammo

There is a god awful amount of ammo out there, you can read NIJ statistics all day, and not find much a difference.

Right now I have Hornady HP's, Golden Sabers, speer Gold Dot, Winchester Rangers bonded HP's, and Cor-Bon.

None of it's cheap, and being realistic about it I'm asking what round will kill someone hands down the best with the least amount or shots.

Everyone asks this and church's the question up like "What will stop an aggressor if I'm attacked?" knowing if all I wanted to do was stun the guy, I would be carrying a Taser, not a .45

Can anyone answer that question?

I'm asking this as the start of the trail against two people who killed my friend in may of 2010 is beginning. My friend was from DC but lived here for 8 years, and we are going to have a huge mix of people from DC to support his memory.

There is already talk of people from DC shooting people here, and people here shooting the people who are coming up from DC. I'm going to be right in the middle of all of this, because I'm not going to hide in my house and not be there to be part of my friend's memory.

I already talked to several local police, and all have said the best advice they can give me is use escalating force like they do, such as pepper spay or taser if they want to fight, or pull your gun and shoot as if they are meaning to kill you if they pull a gun on you. Either way if I'm 100% in the right or 100% in the wrong, I'm going to get cuffed and took down town til things are figured out. Just don't leave the area, when the police pull up lay the gun down and keep my hands above my shoulders, and don't fight back because they don't know who was the bad guy so they need to get everyone under control.

It's talked about a lot, but I'm talking about living it out for real. I hope nothing happens but I want to be ready if it does. I've looking into the legal side and now I need to know more about the physical side, realistically what ammo to carry, where to aim, and how many shots?
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Old 10-13-2011, 05:46 PM   #2
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Join Date: Jun 2001
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When dealing with modern American defense grade ammo, what brand or type is "best" is a meaningless question.

One test will have one brand/type as Number One, another test will have something else at Number One and the first one will be number two or three.
The fact is, due to modern bullet technology bullets are as close to 100% reliable as humanly possible given the level of the science.
There is no round of ammunition in any caliber that stands noticeably above any other premium defense type in the same caliber.
In short, it really doesn't matter what you buy as long as it's a premium grade American defense round.
Searching for "the best" is wasted effort because there IS no "best".

What does count is selecting a round that's RELIABLE in YOUR gun.
Within reason, accuracy is far, far less important than reliability.
Yes you have to hit the target, but you don't get to pick which button on his shirt you get to hit.
Too many people SAY and THINK they want a defense gun, but what they're really looking for is a range toy. These people are obsessed with accuracy and how the gun looks. They never really give much thought to reliable operation and they seldom really validate the gun for reliability.
People rush a new gun to the range and shoot it to see how accurate it is. If they can't put the bullets into a small group they're disappointed and think the gun is no good.
One certified man-killing policeman was once asked how accurate a defense gun should be. He said "Six inches at six feet".

People agonize over the "best" ammo, and never shoot enough to validate their gun and magazines.
In short, they really have absolutely no idea if the gun/magazine/ammo they're using will work reliably.

To validate, you need to shoot at least 100 and better, 200 rounds of THE SAME AMMO as you intend to carry in the gun.
This is expensive, so few people bother. They fire a magazine or two and figure that's enough.
If the gun is a new one, shoot at least 100 to 200 rounds of whatever cheap ammo you want to break the gun in and turn up any problems.

After break in, thoroughly clean and lubricate the gun and all the magazines for it.
Then buy the 100 to 200 rounds of defense ammo you'll be using for "business".
Shoot the entire amount without cleaning or re-lubing the gun, using all the magazines.
You can shoot some one day and the rest another, but no cleaning, lubing or disassembly.
Don't let the gun get hot, so take your time.
Shoot some slow fire, but most rapid fire, just like you would in a real shooting situation.
If the gun is a double action, start each magazine in double action and with the magazine and chamber fully loaded.

If the gun will fire the entire amount without ANY trouble, you can pretty well figure it's a reliable gun/ammo/magazine combination.
Change ANYTHING and you have to do the verification all over. That means if you buy a new magazine or modify the gun you have to shoot enough to re-verify.

As to where to shoot, the experts all agree. Shoot where he's widest, which means the center of the chest.
In a real fight you will not be able to shoot for a specific spot, and you'll thank your lucky stars if you hit him in his big toe.
Only a fool aims for the head unless you're in a close range failure to stop situation.
Shooting to wound is something from cowboy movies not the real world.

How much to shoot? Until he goes down for the count or gives up.
In other words until you no longer feel threatened.
There is no hard round count, and none is possible.
One attacker may feel the wind of a passing bullet and give up, another may be high on drugs or adrenaline and soak up a magazine full.

In most cases you shoot until you feel he's no longer a threat, or until he starts to retreat, in which case you're no longer legally allowed to keep shooting.
Keep in mind "the real world": Is he running away or running for cover so he can continue?

Basically you shoot for the center of the chest and keep shooting until you no longer feel under threat.
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Old 10-13-2011, 06:07 PM   #3
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+1. Too, I'd be extra careful about this. Your biggest ally is going to be your situational awareness and training. Hardware definitely takes a back set to software. Good practice from concealment on the draw, and dry fire. And use ball ammo that is preferably the same make, weight, and fps as the HPs that you plan to carry. Point of aim/impact is different for different weights & speeds. Recoil and muzzle flash should be similar, too. You're gonna want as few surprises as possible if you really do end up having to defend yourself.
Old 10-13-2011, 10:49 PM   #4
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Flood City, PA
Posts: 58
Thanks you, to both of you for the information, it is all going to be used to factor in what I choose to carry.

I never had the extra money to modify my gun, so they are all factory. Any money I did put in them was ammo, but I always keep my guns super clean. other than that I've done a lot along the lines you said. I change out my carry ammo every 4 months, so I've shot a lot of it. I have all those different brands, but each is a different caliber, mainly because that's what they had in the local shops. If one bullet was better then the next I would carry the same in all calibers, but since I've been putting 1 kind through each caliber since I got the gun, I might as well keep that the same.

I've been taking this serious since I bought my 1st gun, other then pulling out quick from concealed, I feel pretty confident with the where I'm at. I hope all the preparation turns out to be an exercise in what I should do, but the reason why I'm preparing is because these people already showed they are willing to kill. I guess I'll find out sooner or later.
Old 10-14-2011, 06:39 PM   #5
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: NOVA
Posts: 385
Well, God bless you, man. I hope He surrounds you with hedges of angels. It's a hateful place to be, worrying about if you'll see your next birthday. I tell you, though. Guns helped save my life. Seriously. I got into gunsmithing school and decided to get right before I got married. I knew this place would take me under. Too much time and effort tearing this joint up, it almost came back to bite me a couple times. When I got married and moved out, I had made some serious foes. Made more of 'em for "leaving people behind". Still, my wife was what mattered. I invested time, effort and $ into guns because I loved 'em and I could do it legitimately just as well if not better than I had before. You're pokin around in the right place, instead of hangin around with a bunch of no-goods. This site is a much safer and much more educational place than where you've been before. I'm sure you've noticed that already. I'll get down off the soapbox, now. BTW, PM sent.

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