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Old 12-07-2008, 04:34 AM   #1
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 114
home defense

even a 12 ga loaoded with bird shot from 10 to 30ft away will make an intruder drop and realize he's made a bad mistake. while pheasant hunting when i was 14 i got hit with a few pellets from a 12 ga accidendly by an unsafe hunter. they burned like hell and a tetanus shot ensued after they were removed
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Old 01-05-2009, 03:46 PM   #2
Posts: n/a
Re: home defense

I keep 6 shells of 12 guage game load in my Remington 870 for just such occasions. Anyone dumb enough to not shite their pants and surrender after I rack one into the chamber may earn a good perforating.
Old 01-06-2009, 04:25 AM   #3
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 951
Re: home defense

Any shotgun with an empty chamber is just a club....unless You had some of the rifle/bayonet trainin' We got before the Army went to the M16 it is not a very good club compared to a Loooieville Slugger.

Most punks can sprint 21 feet in a second....Can You rack one in the barrel and get a shot off if the punk starts first, what about 10 feet?.....I'm a firm beleiver in keepin' all the odds on My side....Usein' BUCKSHOT is another advantage I won't give up. Dead punks sue for a lot less money than a poor disavantaged blind undie.

If the punk has a sheetrock wall to get behind it will take two or more rounds of game loads to get to him....Buckshot doesn't get thru 3/4 in. plywood very easy.......SLUGS MAY BE THE WAY TO GO.....After sundown one of the super bright flashlights along with the firearm can up the odds in My favor dependin'

Bill Caldwell
Old 01-06-2009, 03:34 PM   #4
Posts: n/a
Re: home defense

I never said the chamber was empty. I'd rather they flee for their lives than hafta shoot. I can spare one good round on the floor. Given the media's desire to witch hunt anyone who does a legitimate self defense shooting I'd prefer to avoid it if I can, but if it comes down to their life or my own I choose me.
Old 01-07-2009, 08:27 PM   #5
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 313
Re: home defense

I'll agree that the 12ga. is the way to go! I've got several options available when something goes "bump in the night". But, every time it did, I bypassed everything else and grabbed the 870! Time permissible, I'd also shove the Glock in the waistband. However, there are several things to consider.

Ammunition is one. I saw a test and read a bunch more about penetration and performance of buckshot and slugs back in the early 90s'. I didn't really believe it and performed the same type of test and even added a bunch. Buckshot is NOT a penetrating round. It will go through sheetrock, but plywood, brick, thick paneling and such will seriously slow it down. The 1oz. slug......GOES THROUGH A LOT! A slug isn't what I'd want inside the house. Birdshot? Buckshot? Any of these inside of 10 feet might as well be a 1oz. slug. Shot hasn't had time to spread and will be together. These test indicated that one certain type of buckshot WOULD penetrate more than any other. I found that to be pretty true and use the load today. Federal 2 3/4 in. Copper Plated Magnum. NOT the 3 in. Same amount of powder, but pushing 12 instead of 9 pellets. Guess that is the reason. The 2 3/4 load WOULD penetrate a vehicle door with enough energy to neutralize a target inside. Same test, a 1 oz. slug would neutralize a target on the OTHER SIDE OF THE VEHICLE.....after passing through both doors! You decide what is best for your environment.

Next....status of the weapon. Mine is LOADED! If I need it, I don't want to have to do anything to get it into action. However, as KainThornn stated, there is another side to this coin. The shotgun is also a very good psychological tool. There is no mistaking the sound of a round being "racked" into the chamber. However, if I were going to rely on that, I'd keep the chamber empty, with the hammer down-meaning that I'd snapped the trigger on the empty chamber. This would set the shotgun up with the hammer down on empty chamber, thereby releasing the bolt/slide making it very simple for me to then "rack" and chamber a round really quick. But, I'd prefer to have mine loaded......and rely on verbal skills to make them leave...if they were so inclined. If not? They'd have serious problems. I'll handle the media later....while I'm still breathing.

Next.....no matter what weapon system you choose, you need a good light. Preferably, mounted ON the weapon. I've worked with several techniques and having it on the weapon is simply too handy....and it is always there when you need it. Unless you were awakened by the loud sound of gunfire....KNEW you were the only resident in the house....KNEW you were the only one living there....KNEW nobody else was suppose to be there......KNEW accountability of all persons inside the residence.....KNEW, KNEW, KNEW!!!!
Then you've got to go by a simple rule. S.E.E. See, Evaluate, Eliminate. Quite simple rule.
See-you see something/someone that you know is out of place.
Evaluate-you've seen it, now is it a threat or not?
Eliminate-if you determine that it is a threat, engage until the threat is eliminated.
This is where a really good, bright light is quite handy. I'm not fond of making "sound shots" (as they have been called in the past) shooting at "noise" in the dark. Ain't no tellin' what I'd be shooting at! And.....a really powerful light is also a psychological tool. It is very hard for the "bad guy" to tell anything about you with a blinding light in his eyes! Bottom line....you have to see the threat to engage it for the most part. I'd hate to make a "sound shot" and find out it was my son's buddy trying to sneak over to play video games. Imagine what the media would do with that. Imagine what that would do to you..........

Another consideration....probably should be the very first thing you do consider......PLAN!!! Have a plan. The "what if". Find your angles. Know your safe areas. If you have a family, plan and then do some drills. This is extremely important. Your life and the lives of your family may depend on it. Decide if you have the tactical advantage by staying where you are or if it would be better to move. These are things most folks never think about....until it is too late. I can almost clear my house with my eyes closed. I've done it quite enough times that I'm quite familiar with all the angles. I know where my problem spots are and where I have the advantage. Quite important when a family is present.....what to do if "this" or "that" happens. Always have more than one option. Make sure everybody knows what to do and what NOT to do. The only dumb question is the one you didn't ask ....and plan for.

This is not a complete guide to "Home Defense". But, I'd consider this a very good starting point. Something to continue building on...........
Old 01-08-2009, 02:50 AM   #6
Posts: n/a
Re: home defense

Good point about shotgun shells and penetration, mine is the 870 Express Tactical, short barrelled for semi CQB. There's only one other person authorized to be in the house and she'll be awakened and under the bed behind me in the event I need to scan the house.
Old 12-01-2010, 11:28 AM   #7
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Location: Long Island,NY
Posts: 11
Thumbs up Self-defense in NY

TT....You are a wise man! I like the way you think , but a Shotgun in a house seems like OVERKILL to me...I like the Bright Light...BUT I don't want to hit my dogs with stray pellets...I know you have seen that one or two weird pellets that go nowhere where you pointed that 780 or any other shotgun, just a mater of hitting each other on the way out the tube....I've shot at the range many times with many different revolvers and pistols any never missed hitting the target...maybe not a bullseye but always on the target...so thats the way I want to go 1 projectile at a time...aimed at the center of whats in the light.

and I still have my Louisville slugger and my2 attack Jack Russells
Old 12-01-2010, 01:00 PM   #8
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 724
A load of #6s in a house will do...but ya really gotta get mad dog mean. Forget center of mass. Shoot for the face or the groin. I know some tough men. Real, world-class badass hombres...but I don't think any of'em will keep comin' after their package is shredded.
Old 12-02-2010, 06:51 AM   #9
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Location: Long Island,NY
Posts: 11
Bright light

IF I were a BAD guy and I was armed...my first shot would go into that light, hit the floor and fire towards that light (or where it was) again. BAD GUYS don't care about collateral damage....who knows I might be wrong, but the Bad Guy wants something bad enough to come into your house, so who knows what he's thinking, carrying or under the influence of besides stupidity! IMHO
Old 12-03-2010, 06:00 PM   #10
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Alpine, Tx
Posts: 40
Jmazz I too have never been a fan of lights on pistols because as you say my first instinct is to shoot at the light and continue shooting at the light. If I have a light on my gun and I'm holding as I would hold it to aim that would mean the shots aimed the light would be aimed at my head.

At home distances are short enough that you won't get much spread from buck shot. I wouldn't consider anything other than 00buck for home defense. I don't want to give the bad guy the advantage of using sheet rock or heavy leather jackets as hard cover from bird shot. Remember it's not about making them bad guy say ouch it's about stopping him before he can stop you and bird shot doesn't get the job done.

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