StormMaster

Couldn't help but notice in an earlier post David's remarks about modifying his P7s.

I've owned both the M13 and M10 varieties over the years, and never really gave the matter much thought before. I suppose I just figured that they were pretty well "ready to use" right out of the box, and always left it at that.

Now my curiousity has been piqued. Obviously the innovative operating system and extremely high quality of these pieces make them good candidates for some inspired tinkering -- assuming, of course, that we can deal with the idea of a $1,400+ "base gun." :smile:

So ... who out there is doing what to their P7 series pistols?

Chuck

StormMaster

One quick caveat to my initial P7 post ... beyond the usual night sites and refinishing jobs, I was aware of some unique P7 mods out of CQB Products in the PRK (URL below), though I have NOT seen any of their work in person.

Chuck

http://www.cqbproducts.com/Gunsmith.htm

Chuck,
The mods I guess are like anything else, if you can tell me what you are looking for perhaps I can reccomend someone I have used.
As far as P7 mods go you name it and it has been done, it often does not make the popular gun rags as the average consumer cannot invest $5 or $10K into one pistol.
Over the years I have had long slides, multiple caliber conversions .41ae, Bomar sights, heinie sights (I know someone will question the how? email me.)
Wood grips, carbon fiber grips, long triggers, stippling, checkering, rounded trigger guards, Austin Behlert did some work in PA, Woods did some in MD, almost any talented welder/metalsmith/gunsmith can work up a longslide conversion.

_________________
Thanks,
David

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: David DiFabio on 2001-04-15 19:54 ]</font>

StormMaster

David,

Curiosity was getting the better of me, so while I had no specific mods in mind, I was interested in what could be/had been done. Sounds like you've experimented with a bit of everything!

I will say this: I would have kept my M10 had I realized that a conversion to 10mm was possible. I just couldn't justify all of that extra bulk for the .40 S&W cartridge. I seem to recall the pre-production M10s having a "conventionally sized" slide, but the 1/4" of steel added to the production gun ruined the package IMO. I could have overlooked this for a full power 10mm.

Since you've had some past experience with the .45 variant, how was this handled in the M7? Was the form factor altered so drastically in the prototypes? I had thought they looked and felt pretty much like the original PSP. (I will always consider this a "missed opportunity" on the part of HK USA ... the M7 would have sold like hotcakes!).

I ultimately sold both the M10 and my M13 to bankroll some custom 1911 projects, but will likely pick up an M8 before I leave Germany in a few years. On a soldier's pay, one is forced to juggle things around a bit sometimes. :smile:

Chuck

The M7 was unfired and I did not fire it either but I can tell you from side by side comparison that it was smaller than the M10 in both grip feel and slide dimensions and the frame was equal to the M13. The mags loaded from the right hand side, not the left and held exactly seven rounds. Slide finish was black parkerizing not bluing and it did not have the heatshield but it was the M series trigger guard not the PSP series. The frame rails were once again full length and the firing pin stop had a lock ring.
I was inspired to do the M10 conversion to 10mm by HK when I learned while researching the M10 series that HK originally intended the series for 10mm. The idea was scaled back once the 10mm started being dropped by the American Police market, HK has always intended the P series for the Police not the civillian market. I do want to explain that you must use a heavier recoil and striker spring for 10mm and only a competent smith should open the chamber for you. Walt Wolff can custom make you the springs, obviously you will void the warranty, and I want to warn you up front that by the third mag of full power silvertips the triggerguard gets quite warm and the 10's definitely heat the pistol up faster than the .40's. I have found I go the best accuracy with bullet weights over 180 grains.

_________________
Thanks,
David

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: David DiFabio on 2001-04-16 06:09 ]</font>

StormMaster

David,

Many thanks for the details on the ill-fated M7. I am beginning to learn of interesting P7 variations in various collections here in Germany, but nothing along the lines of these .45 prototypes.

Also, with respect to your observations on 10mm conversion, it strikes me as entirely logical that such a thing could be carried off well -- especially given the obvious similarities between the centimeter-based cartridges. I just never considered this before you mentioned it. Sounds like you've created a highly-desireable and rare pistol.

Something tells me that the true potential of the P7 design has been left largely untapped. It really is too bad that the price of admission prevented more widespread acceptance among American shooters, but there simply is no cheap way to make a world-class product. If I act quickly enough, at least I can capitalize on a favorable DM exchange rate. :smile:

Chuck

Scooter

The P7M7 was not put into production because HK could not make the system work. The P7M7 was not a gas retarded system because the 45 ACP round did not produce enough pressure to retard the slide. Instead there was a hydro buffer, not sure what it really looked like or how it works, but I was told that HK could not get the buffer to work right. Which is why they scrap the project, HK does still one 1 P7M7 out of 6. 1 was stolen from the set of Miami Vice, it was on loan to them.

Scooter,
A P7M7 was never stolen from the set of Miami Vice. The Miami Vice incident is in fact an urban legend that I have read on numerous HK fan websites and Gun & Ammo even ran an article on it once.
I have owned a P7M7 and you are correct it is a blowback not gas operating system, did it work I do not know and I will never shoot the next one I get a hold of.
Hk did in fact build 6 pistols, only five were working firearms, today they do own three of the five pistols, in a late 1980's gun magazine it did state that they only owned pistol #1, they did in fact buy back the other two.
You seem to know some of the HK history, stay with it.
I have a trivia question can anyone tell me what pistol in the P series family design prototype line was built for semi and selective fire?
PS: A Bren Ten was stolen from the weapons trailer during the filming of an early episode of Miami vice. If you don't believe me on the Miami Vice issue I suggest you contact Michael Mann through his agent Richard Lovett.

Scooter

That was what Bruce Gray told me. I was inquiring about what P7 mods he did in the 80's.

TCao

David:
I'm guesing here... but the VP70 had selective fire capability with the shoulder stock attached.

Thong