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Old 01-14-2011, 08:05 AM   #11
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Well Sarge, IMHO ya don't spend alotta time blowin' smoke up your own ass........
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Old 01-14-2011, 08:15 AM   #12
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The Kahr Mag Problem

I am in new york and had this problem so i went on the web to see what i could find. On you tube is an excellent or should i say 2 excellent videos showing and explaining this problem. If you have a pm9, fully load a mag then push front of top round down. It will stay down, the spring pressure is only at the back of round. After removing 2 rounds they have support and chamber perfectly. On bigger pistols with more substantial mags they can achieve that support. I am in no way saying Kahr pistols are not quality, i am saying that the magazines can be improved. The chambering of a round should be done with design and not force. If you ease the slide closed on glocks or 1911's they chamber rounds easily. However on a kahr they will get stuck almost everytime. Do you think this is normal?
Old 01-14-2011, 10:41 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by dfariswheel View Post
Kahr hasn't fixed the magazines, because there is no problem.

The downward pointing top round is just a feature of the design and causes no problems.
All the Kahr pistols do this and most are very reliable.
People look at the downward pointing round and don't see that on other guns so they just decide that the magazines are defective.
If the magazine design was defective ALL Kahr pistols would jam constantly....They don't.

On the internet, you have to learn to be selective about what you believe, and who you believe.
A lot of what you'll see about guns is disgruntled customers who are angry and condemn everything about a brand, some who are just repeating what they've heard and don't even own the gun, and some outright fakery just to stir up trouble. Mixed in there are a few attempts to sabotage a brand because the poster has some sort of grudge.
It's common to see someone who got a bad gun, then takes every possible opportunity to run them down or damage their reputation by claiming the gun is a defective design or is poorly made.
You'll see people who may or may actually not have had a genuine problem, and when the company didn't meet their unreasonable demands, are attempting to punish the company by trying to convince people the guns or company are no good.
You'll recognize these people after someone posts something about a good experience or bad experience with a brand, and they quickly post about how rotten the gun is and often how you were a fool to buy one.

As with any gun of any cost, you'll see all kinds of problems on the internet.
The most problems in the Kahr's do appear to be the polymer framed guns but those are usually problems with the polymer frame itself.
The steel guns run very well.
You hear plenty of problems about Glock pistols, and every other brand.
As example the famous exploding Glock's.

As for reliability, no matter what gun or what the price, you simply buy one and see if it works. If it doesn't, you send it back to the company on their dime and let them fix it. This is no different than a new TV, a new car, or a new egg beater.

Some pointers about Kahr pistols:
Promag magazines are not good quality. With almost all of the micro-guns use ONLY genuine factory magazines.
While some people have luck with aftermarket mags, most don't, especially Promag.
The Kahr magazines are very high quality and specifically designed to work in their guns. These micro guns are operating right on the edge of what's possible in such a small package. Changing magazines or recoil springs is asking for trouble where none exists.
Micro guns are not like full sized guns. You can't play around with them this way because there's no room for variation.
Buy only Kahr mags.

The company is very clear that the gun requires a 200 round break in period, and a few need a little more. Most never give any problems from the first round. Don't be shocked if the gun gives some trouble in the first 200 rounds, but most don't.

The reason for loading from the slide lock is because you have a tiny, hard to grip gun with a very strong spring. Too many people try to "slingshot" the slide and simply fail to pull it all the way to the rear. Of course, they blame the gun or the "defective magazine" when it fails to feed.
After the gun gets broken in, most can be sling-shotted, but you have to make sure you pull the slide all the way back or it will fail to feed, just like any other gun.

You may have to experiment to find a brand and type of ammo your specific gun "likes". This is nothing new for any gun.
Too many people just decide their new gun WILL be used with a specific ammo, and when it won't work well, they blame the gun.
I've seen this many times. The owner says the gun is junk and trades it in. The new owner tries other ammo and has a 100% reliable gun.

The Kahr is a "people shooter" not a target gun or a range toy.
The only thing that counts is reliability. Too many people demand target gun accuracy and aren't happy when the Kahr won't shoot all 10's.

The Kahr has a trigger that was designed to feel like a S&W double action revolver. If you're used to 1911's or the modern short action guns, you may not like the Kahr at first.
The trigger is long and has a long return. That's how it was designed to work.
I tell people to shoot it like it's a revolver. You have to "learn" the Kahr trigger before you can shoot it fast or more accurately.
Too many people try the trigger and immediately start trying to install lighter springs or figure out how to shorten the reset. Result.... an unreliable gun.
If you want a lighter trigger or shorter reset... buy something else.

The Kahr is possibly this generations "Gold Standard" in a small micro defense gun. It's expensive, because the quality is high.
Many tens of thousands have been sold, and naturally some had problems.
As naturally, you seldom hear about all the tens of thousands that had no problems at all, but you hear constantly about the few who do.

If Kahr had "bad magazines" or any other constant design problem the company would have been out of business many years ago.
The fact that they're still in business, expanding and doing fine, and a lot of cops buy Kahr pistols, should tell you something.

The bottom line is, again, like ANY gun including the vaunted Glock, all brands will have problems with a small percentage. If you do, that's what the new gun warranty is for.
If it doesn't, you worried for nothing.

Last, you seem to have heavy reservations about the Kahr. Unless you can actually handle and fire one, possibly you shouldn't buy one.
If you're already sure Kahr has a defective magazine, even though they aren't, you'll probably start off not liking it, and the first bobble during break in will convince you it's no good.

Your choice.
First, listen to this man and heed his words. He KNOWS what he is talking about.

Second, I watched over a dozen videos on YOUBOOB. By far the majority were flattering of the PM9 as a carry gun in their review.

Third, the two that were attempting to demonstrate "a perceived design flaw" in the magazine did so by manipulating the round insertion and slide release by hand to achieve the desired result. Nowhere did they insert a full magazine and use the slide release lever or live fire the weapon during the test to break it in. None of us intentionally depress a top round causing a malfunction. We load it, smack our mags to align the rounds then insert them. The 3 prong attack of spring forces(recoil,main,magazine) work together to make sure all goes according to plan. Slowing down the slide by hand is a surefire way of gumming up the works.

Fourth, I can achieve the same results on my singlestack 38supers and 9mms of varying makes. All perform flawlessly when handled correctly by a knowledgeable shooter.

Last edited by Sarge405; 01-14-2011 at 10:47 AM.
Old 01-14-2011, 02:56 PM   #14
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Sarge 405 you wrote a very interesting paragraph but it still doesn't address the top rounds getting caught on the bottom of the barrel ramp. It would not do this if the rounds were pointing into the chamber. You think Kahr purposely designed this to be hard to chamber a round. You have to sling shot the slide or use the slide release. Why didn't they make it so it would go right in as they do if you have 3 or 4 rounds in the magazine. I didn't read this on the internet, it works this way. You are getting hot as if i am knocking your favorite pistol. I am just asking why they can't design a magazine that supports all the rounds. And your saying that Kahr wants you to have to force the top rounds in but they want the last 3 or 4 to just glide in. I really like and will probably purchase a Kahr pistol but am saying the magazine could be better. I don't like not being able to release the slide the way i do on other pistols, and have the top round stuck on the feed ramp.
Old 01-14-2011, 04:15 PM   #15
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Dave, i sometimes have the same problem with a full mag of .22LR in my Ruger MK II, if I inadvertently forget to smack the back of the mag into the palm of my hand before inserting it into the weapon.
Old 01-14-2011, 06:51 PM   #16
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All I can add is that I have an early stainless K9 and I can't even induce it to jam. This is purely anecdotal, but I know a lot of people who own Kahr pistols, and very few have had problems.
I broke it in with some really horrible 1960's Egyptian 9mm ammo that wouldn't work in anything else, but the K9 just ate it up.
I run Winchester Silver Tips in it simply because that's what I had on hand when I bought it, and since it's 100% with it, I've seen no reason to change.
I have three mags with the gun and over 3000 rounds through it, with ZERO stoppages.

I can load the K9 by gently easing the slide forward and the round will feed perfectly, needing only a push to fully close the slide after the round is in the chamber. Admittedly, this is a K9, which is bigger than the micro guns.

I just don't know what to tell you about the "defective magazines".
Hundreds of thousands of Kahr's have been sold and you hear almost no complaints about magazines other than a bad batch of plastic followers a few years ago.
The downward round looks odd, and in other guns is often a problem. It isn't in the Kahr, and most owners just ignore it when it works so well.

Bottom line, for a "defective design magazine" there are remarkably few complaints about it from actual users.
If there was a problem with the design, Justin Moon would have of necessity changed it under customer demand.
Many Kahr buyers are individual police and some departments. They don't buy guns that have a design defect that the manufacturer refuses to correct.

You seem to be obsessing over something that isn't as problem and is only claimed by some unknown people in a couple of youtube posts.
If you spend any time at all on youtube, you quickly learn to take what is presented there with a lot of skepticism.
So the top rounds are supported oddly, and so the top round points downward.
All that matters is does the gun function when fired?
Does the gun load properly when loaded per the factory's instructions?

If the answer to both is "Yes", I'd submit there is no issue.
Old 01-15-2011, 05:55 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by dave606 View Post
You are getting hot as if i am knocking your favorite pistol.
No sir. Not at all. If you think explanations are anger then you need to re-read posts. You are the one who seems to be obsessed with this issue and you stated you have'nt even purchased one yet. There are tens of thousands of happy Kahr owners out there and a couple of of internet self made gunsmiths knowitalls come up with a non existent problem to bolster their ego and and the minions fall in line. If you have a problem with YOUR gun take it to the maker or a qualified gunsmith. Period.

Ps-I do not own a Kahr nor am I affiliated with the company.
Old 01-15-2011, 08:02 AM   #18
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And with that post I am done with this subject. Some will listen to those with the knowledge and some will not.
Old 01-15-2011, 05:47 PM   #19
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I'm also out.
Old 02-15-2012, 06:25 PM   #20
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Kahr PM9 Issues

Howdy Folks,

New user here, but not a new gun guy.

I recently purchased a Kahr PM9 (11 February, 2012), and took it to the range the day after to test it out.

I used two different types of ammunition. One was a standard FMJ, and the other was a hollowpoint (Hornady). I had NUMEROUS issues with failure to feed to the point that I almost could not get the slide to move, or remove the magazine. This happened with both the 6 and 7 round magazines. I only managed to put about 120 rounds through all of the hang ups before I gave up.

I've never ever had anything even remotely close to this issue with ANY of my other handguns. Believe me, I WANT to like this gun.

I've heard and read similar stories prior to purchasing this pistol, however I believed some of it to be rare issues. I love the overall fit and finish of the pistol, and was also sold on it's size. The trigger is perfect as well when it worked.

The problem in my estimation has something to do with the interference fit between the magazine, the magazine release button, and the magazine release "opening" in the magazine. Another possibility might have something to do with the magazine spring being too weak?

When these malfunctions occurred, the magazine was jammed so tightly in the receiver that I had to try for almost a minute to get it out. The cartidges left inside were "nose down" in the magazine. Not that that means anything, but, . . . never noticed that in any other handgun. Just saying. I had never read anything about that before, just happened to see it as I was trying like hell to clear the malfuntion.

I WILL NOT carry this handgun as my personal defense weapon until it fires at least 500 round without any malfunctions at this point. Besides, I have too many other 99% reliable handguns to stress over this one (other than the wheelbarrow full of money the freaking thing cost).

I've included a comment that I found on while doing a search for issues relating to feed problems with the PM9. This comment is exactly the issue I had as well. I'd be most interested in hearing your comments. Others have suggested purchasing an aftermarket magazine, however for the over $700 I paid, this thing should work FLAWLESSLY (or should I say, like my Glocks, my Sig, my Ruger, hell, even my Kel-Tec). I've owned many, many handguns, and this is the ONLY one I've EVER had problems like this with.

[I]"My PM9 recently went to the factory for it's 5th and final trip. They finally bought it back. Worst gun I have ever owned. It suffered from chronic catastrophic jamming. The mag would be near impossible to remove after it FTF or FTE. However, it could be thrown at ones assailant after a FTF. I don't believe it ever went more than 20 rounds without a screw up. Several other experienced shooters had the same results. Good luck with yours. I'll try a Beretta Nano next."

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