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Old 10-05-2004, 04:08 PM   #11
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 39
.32NAA...NOOOOOOO!

John-Knoxville,
Flyer has experimented with a .32NAA barrel on his P3AT. I tried a .32NAA Guardian with the CorBon ammo. To answer your question, no, the .32NAA will not rimlock since it is a necked down .380 case with a .32 bullet. But my experience was dismal, really dismal, I won't use the P' word but it was that. Terrible recoil. And the Guardian had no ejector. Yup, no ejector (extractor yes), so it depended on the round underneath to eject the round being extracted. The force of the magazine spring had to do it. (No slide lock either, but read on!)
Then, the miserable problem, the last round in the chamber has no round in the magazine to eject it so it hangs up between the slide and chamber. When questioned, NAA said this is their method of obtaining slide lock with an empty magazine. Can you believe such!! :evil: :P :roll:

Besides, the only ammo available is CorBon's and expensive. None of the other ammo makers are gonna make this round, I asked them. Anyway, the velocity is way too high and the poorly designed bullet/jacket does a separation job with really weird results. You can see my test results at....
http://www.ktrange.com/articles/a10/a10.html
Check item 7. FWIW, it's still only a .32bullet.
like Gun Tests magazine I rate .32NAA as a "don't buy". Stay with your P32, a "best buy".
og......neadless to say I'm still pissed that I paid $400 for that Pxx.
 
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Old 10-10-2004, 10:19 AM   #12
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 90
Grandpa, it ain't only the .32 NAA that counts on the rounds below for ejection; the regular .32ACP works the same way; works WELL, however.
I like Silvertips in the P-32; never any rim lock issues, 'tho I know it's possible. 100% feeding in three P-32s, and they run and gun in the NA too.
Had some Magtechs with no bevel to the rim; made for the mother of all rim lock jams.
BTW, I have a homade mag cover for my spare; protects the feed lips and keeps lint and pocket gunk out.
Moon
 
Old 10-10-2004, 07:56 PM   #13
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 39
P32 ejector

Moon,
the P32 has both an extractor and ejector. So the spent case ejects in the normal way, including the last round. And there is a visible ding on the face of the case where it hit the ejector during extraction, showing it may have never ejected without the ejector. I've never had a "jam" with the last round hanging up between the breech and chamber with the P32.
The NAA Guardian did that weird "jam" with the last round every time, finally putting a gouge in the stainless steel at the chamber side of the pistol.
The only other pistol designed different is the Beretta Tomcat which has no extractor but has an ejector. The blowback design does the "extracting" automatically and the ejector is there to knock the case out of the way.
I'm sure about the SeaCamp. Maybe someone that owns one can comment on what it has.
I guess the ejector could fall out of your P32 and get lost and then make you think the P32 never had one. I always check everything when reassembling the pistol after cleaning to be sure the parts are all there.
But I will agree with you that the round underneath in the magazine is "helping" the spent round to eject until the last round, then if there is no ejector there will be a "jam".
Again, I'll say I've never had a "jam" with my P32 or Beretta Tomcat. Only with the 32NAA which I got rid of because of that. Looks like the ejector is more important than the extractor in a blowback pistol. The P32 has to have both since it is a locked breech design.

Cheers,
og
 
 
Old 10-11-2004, 06:29 AM   #14
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 90
grandpa,
Thanks for the comeback. We are misunderstanding each other, I think.
My point was that ALL North American (not sure about the larger .380) guns lack an ejector, and my North American .32ACP often left a spent casing 'tween the slide and breech. Worked 100%, tho'.
You are of course correct about tip-up Berettas; neither .22, .25, nor .32 have an extractor. The .22 short ones are a ball to shoot, but it isn't really clear what they are good for other than fun.
My only reservation about a defense gun without an extractor is clearing a jam or misfire, but that is more likely with a rimfire.
I have had three Kel-Tec P-32s (still have two of 'em), and yes, they have both extractor and ejector, and they work just fine.
I had a P3-AT, but finally gave up on it.
Moon
 
Old 10-11-2004, 06:40 PM   #15
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 39
good posting!

Moon,
sure enjoy chatting with you. I hate to admit it but I traded my P3AT too (won't flame it, shot good, but just not my favorite gun). The P32 is just so much nicer in every way. I carry mine always.
I agree there is a concern with no extractor on the Tomcat. The only saving feature of the Tomcat is the tip up barrel. This could make it easier to "dig out" a misfired round or one that froze in the chamber.
I'm still wondering about the SeaCamp. I have a friend that has one and will visit him later this week and have him show it to me.
CU soon,
og
 
Old 10-11-2004, 06:54 PM   #16
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 19
after my first shooting session with my recent hard chrome upgrade, i shall be carrying FMJ exclusively, as the GDHP stovepiped or FTE

likely Fiocchi, as S & B is difficult to find; WWB is not high quality, as the surface rust would indicate

confidence is still not 100%, but is still alot better with the FMJ (the lil' sucker is pretty accurate, even at 30 ft.); either way, hope i never have to use it for real.....
 
Old 10-12-2004, 07:09 PM   #17
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 39
FMJ

John,

good decision to use FMJ since it works everytime in your P32. Most FMJ I've tried work fine. However, I've never tried S&B but have heard it has a hard primer and sometimes missfires. Use what works best.
og
 
Old 10-18-2004, 06:40 PM   #18
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 39
Seecamp......found some info

Finally got a good look at a little Seecamp .32 pistol owned by a friend who is a collector. And he told me and showed me stuff that ain't published and is not anywhere on the internet gun forums or the few dealer sites! Seecamp does not have it's own site so no help there.

1. The pistol is a locked breech design with a link on the barrel like a Browning 1911. So the barrel, chamber end, tilts down during cycling.
2. It has an extractor but no ejector. And it does the stove pipe jam on the last round but not always. There is no slide lock.
3. You can't unload the pistol with a full magazine. You can't cycle the slide without a magazine in the pistol. So if you want to completely unload, you first have to empty the magazine manually, one round at a time, reinsert the empty magazine, then you can cycle the slide to get the last round out of the chamber.
It won't fire without the magazine in place.
4. It only uses JHP of same OAL as Silvertips. But every round is damaged on the nose of the hollowpoint during chambering. The Browning action tilting the barrel is the cause. This really leaves a distorted nose on the bullet. He showed me the bullets he had unloaded. The bullet hits the edge of the chamber during cycling, whether by hand or during firing, leaving the damaged nose. It still fires the round but there doesn't seem to be any terminal ballistic data on whether the bullet mushrooms or what kind of penetration you get with this damage.
5. After the patent ran out, NAA copied the design and this is what their Guardian pistols is based on, no ejector, stove pipe jam on last round.
The only difference I could see was the magazine fits higher in the Seecamp than in the NAA so that it doesn't stove pipe as often.
6. The orginial patent was for the recoil spring which is a double spring that many pistols copy now.
7. Kel Tec P32 did not copy the Seecamp and has only one anomaly, the empty magazine must be in place to lock the slide back since the lock is internal. But you can unload the P32 without the magazine in place and the slide stays locked back even when you remove the magazine. Way better design.

So that's about it. Besides costing $450, now you know why you don't want a Seecamp.

Cheers
og
 
Old 10-18-2004, 07:12 PM   #19
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 90
Grandpa-
I must respectfully disagree. The Seecamp is a blowback design, with a 'ringed' chamber to slow the violence of extraction.
The North American, lacking this trick chamber, uses only the recoil spring/slide mass- and a slide with more mass than the Seecamp- to keep the slide closed.
The barrel of the North American is part of the frame; it is rigid and unmoving. I believe the Seecamp works the same way.
Moon
 
Old 10-18-2004, 07:59 PM   #20
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 39
Ah So!

moon,
you're right, just got told that on another forum. That it's a 'delayed blowback' not full locked breech. well, that makes it even a dumber design or why did Seecamp put a link on the barrel to tip it at all. My friend didn't let me shoot it or take it apart, he says it's a bitch to field strip. So, with no way to lock the slide back I couldn't really tell what the action/mechanism was supposed to do. All I really cared about was that it didn't have no damn ejector like a pistol is supposed to have to avoid that stupid last round jam, like the stupid .32NAA Guardian I had.
In searching the internet for info on the Seecamp I could find just about zilch on how the pistol works. No diagrams, nothin.
What do you suppose is causing the bullet nose damage? Could the grooves in the chamber do it?

So, I'm liking my Kel Tec P32 and Browning Tomcat even more. (And if I ever lose the slide on my Tomcat I know I can call you to help find it. :lol: ....private story from moon)
Neither is perfect but sure better than that Seecamp thing. Will give Seecamp credit though for effort in being first to design a miniature 32 pocket pistol. Wonder if he made any money on it. Still some for sale on web sites.
Cheers,
og...........learn something new everyday! :wink:
 
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