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Old 09-19-2004, 04:33 PM   #21
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 8
N.Y.P.D. and the New York City Correction Department strictly prohibits carrying anything other than a 9mm off duty. Our 9mm service weapons can be carried off duty and there are a list of sanctioned 9mm's that may be carried off duty also. Old timers like myself are granted the option of carrying the S&W .38 caliber Model as a bug and an off duty as well as the 9mm. Many oldtimers have reseigned themselves to sticking with the Model 10 as a "status symbol" of seniority. All officers hired from 1994 were 9mm trained the rest of us had the option to transition to the 9mm.

Here's a listing of N.Y.P.D's 9mm's :

Choice of Service Weapons : May be used Off duty also.

S&W 5946
Sig Sauer P226 *Provided they were purchased or issued prior to 07/31/95.
Beretta 92D Centurion * These were the "test" firearms issued to E.S.U. in 1988.

Off Duty :

S&W 3953 TSW
S&W 3914 DAO
Beretta 8000

.38 Caliber Revolvers :
* An officer may use these firearms provided they were purchased and owned prior to July 1, 1987.

S&W Model 10 4"
Colt Official Police
Colt Metropolitan Mark III
Dan Wesson Model 11 Fixed Barrel
Ruger Police Service Six

New York City Correction Department

Service Weapons : May be used Off Duty also.

S&W 5946
S&W 6946 * If purchased before July 1, 2001
Sig Sauer P226
Sig Sauer P228
Beretta 92D Centurion

Off Duty Only

S&W 3914
S&W 3953
Sig Sauer P225* Must have been purchased prior to July 1, 2000.

.38 Calber Revolvers

S&W Model 10 4" * On/Off Duty

S&W Model 10 2" *
Ruger GP100 *

*Strictly Off Duty and must have been issued prior to July 1, 1987.

The only exception to the above list are those assigned to specialized units.

The ammo is SPEER Gold Dot 124 grain +P Hollow Point ammo only. To be carried on and off duty.
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Old 09-19-2004, 06:22 PM   #22
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 47
how many police officers that have CCW permits carry whatever they want (department sanctioned or not) when they are off-duty?
Old 09-19-2004, 07:45 PM   #23
Join Date: Sep 2004
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New York City will not issue a CCW to ACTIVE Officers. Any officer involved in an off duty incident involving their firearm must carry any of the firearms listed above. If an officer is found to have used another firearm other than these they will be immediately disciplined, possibly pending termination and possibly criminal charges.
Old 09-20-2004, 05:16 AM   #24
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Posts: 391
What is the biggest reason for the strict 9mm carry on or off duty? I have always thought that NY carried 9mm for there duty weapon was because of the mass number of officers that have to be trained on the weapon and generally the $$$. If that is the case then they should be allowed to carry what they want off duty. As far as close quarter penetration the 9mm has about the same as some of the 45 and 40 ammo out there. 8)
Old 09-20-2004, 12:06 PM   #25
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 8
The City mandates that all officers are to carry the same caliber they were trained with departmentally on and off duty to avoid any liability suits that may arise from off duty incidents. An officer who violates departmental policy by carrying a firearm other than permitted not only violates departmental rules and regs but also loses his/her indemnification by the department. Loosely translated, the department will not back the officer nor will they be afforded legal representation by the union or department for this violation.

New York City is one of the most populated citys' in the world. The city made the initial error of permitting fully jacketed 9mm rounds which turned tragic as evidenced in the Diallo shooting. There are very few "open spaces" here in the city as in other parts of the state. The chances of richochetting rounds is extremely higher than anywhere else plus the density of the population at any given time. Combine these two ingredients are you have the making of a tragedy waiting to happen.

A side note, I'm an officer and certified firearms trainer. I teach the entire curiculum including Use Of Force as well as actual firearms training. Unlike most departments N.Y.P.D. officers as a whole are not inclined to be enamored with firearms or are they given to take advantage of improving their skills other than annual requal. The department encourages all officers to utilize the open range to train on their own time and to become members of our Olympic Team which competes annually with other departments in the Police Olympics which has many areas of competition including firearms..

It seems that N.Y.P.D. officers as a group are not firearms enthusiasts as are other law enforcement departments within the city. Believe it or not the city Correction department trains their officers better and has a unit called the Prism which everyone trains with. It's a computer trainer which actually simulates real life situation so much so the unit fires back at the shooter! Correction Officers are required to go through the very same training as N.Y.P.D. these officers are more involved with honing their skills on and off duty. Many correction officers belong to private ranges and are involved with competitions. I find this interesting.

Moving onto two other departments Parole and Probation. Neither of these departments were required to carry a firearm on or off duty. Post 9-11 this changed all Parole and Probation officers were required and trained to carry 9mm.

There are over 44,000 N.Y.P.D. Officers, New York City Correction Officers 14,000 Parole and Probation Officers approximately 3,000 so far that's 61,000 officers that "may" carry a firearm other than they were trained with and idemnified with. This doesn't include Court Officers and other law enforcement officers in the city. Given these figures aside from N.Y.P.D. that's quite a bit of secondary firearms which these departments cannot attest to the skill level of the officers. This is the main reason why the city is so stringent in their requiring 9mm only. They can vouch for each officer trained and the level of proficiency. Any other caliber is a guess at best.
Old 09-25-2010, 07:39 PM   #26
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LEO's should be allowed to carry the off duty weapon of their choosing, with the requirements that it be AT LEAST a .38Spl, the Officer can qualify with it, and the Officer purchases his own hollowpoint ammo-----JMHO...
Old 09-27-2010, 10:51 AM   #27
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I saw this was old but I didn't bring it back, so here's my take.

I carry a 1911, .45acp on duty. My agency mandate says nothing larger off duty. How convenient!!!!!!!!!!
Old 10-07-2010, 08:08 AM   #28
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9mm - not to start a fight, but I'd be interested in your statement re: "The city made the initial error of permitting fully jacketed 9mm rounds which turned tragic as evidenced in the Diallo shooting".

Just how did the ROUND involved in the shooting influence the actual events necessitating the shooting?
BTW, let's NOT go down the unending terminal ballistics argument. Again - I'm fairly familiar with this situation and use it in many teaching scenarios. I'd be interested in your take on it.
Old 10-09-2010, 08:40 AM   #29
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9mm's post was in 2004. You may not get a response now.

From what I remember NYPD did initially issue FMJs but eventually saw the light? The Diallo shooting if I remember was just simple poor shooting, poor lighting, poor situation, poor tactics??????

I don't recall which rounds were issued at the time but would it have made a difference considering the number of rounds fired at target to number of terminal hits?
Old 10-12-2010, 02:59 PM   #30
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I use it in teaching as it shows that folks can do everything right and a shooting can still be tragic; a good shoot...but tragic consequences. Pretty interesting study in physiological and psychological reaction to a deadly force encounter.

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