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Old 08-13-2002, 08:17 PM   #1
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 20
1911 proposal for duty gun

I am a full time firearms instructor for my agency, and we currently issue Glock 22's at a duty weapon. I am looking into doing a proposal for optional duty carry of 1911 pistols. Has anyone done or participated in this sort of study. If so, please contact me, I would appreciate any info.

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Old 08-15-2002, 02:26 PM   #2
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 248
1911 duty weapons

I recently re-wrote our policy to include single action autos. the stipulations were:
1. the operator must have completed the semi-auto course.
2. the operator must have carried a double action auto for at least 2 years.
3. only high quality autos are allowed (no Norinco's etc.)
4. a minimum 3.5 lb trigger pull
5. if the original design had a firing pin safety, it must be intact.
6. grip safeties must be operational (no pinning or deactivating)
7. operator must qualify at 80 % or higher
8. range master has discretion to disallow any operator.
Old 08-15-2002, 05:25 PM   #3
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Littleton, Colorado
Posts: 191

N-Frame. I like your guidelines, except for one. Why a double action for at least two years?

Would you be willing to explain your reasoning for the double action policy?

Why not mandate a certain # of training hours with the 1911, or min. # of rounds /yr. I would say 3000 rounds /yr, would suffice instead of the 2 years carry ahead of time.

Other than that, GOOD FOR YOU. It's always good to see people changing things to rules that make sense.

How many people have made the switch or are going to make it?
Old 08-16-2002, 07:59 AM   #4
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 248

Because of limited resourses it was impractical to try and keep round count on individuals. We had and continue to have alot of young troops wanting to go to single actions just because they were cool. We want to have these troops show a track record of safe gunhandling. Almost anyone can fake it for a few days, but we want to see how they are over a period of time.
All of these "rules" are flexible. The range master has the discretion to allow or disallow individuals as he sees fit. We had one new Deputy that came to us from the city marshal's office. He had been allowed to carry single action with them. Through an interlocal agreement he had attended our semi-auto class with a Colt 1911. In this case the range master had allowed him to continue to carry the Colt with us.

How many have made the switch? Including myself (STI 2011 .40) we have about 8 who are now allowed the single actions. Out of 1300 commisioned that is not many, but that's OK, not many people are really cut out for carrying a gun much fewer for a Single action.

We have even gone the opposite route and found that some cannot properly handle the light triggers of the Glocks. Several have been forced to go to a DAO metal frame pistol like the Smith 5946.

Our range master was once a great fan of the 1911. In recent years he has gotten on the Glock bandwagon (Why, I don't know)
He sees the Glock as a no brainer weapon, point and shoot. He sees the 1911 as a thinking man's gun.

On a side note I am the most likely candidate to take over as range master when the current one retires in about a year. One of the things I hope to do is mandate NY triggers in the glocks. IMO the Glock is too easy to fire unintentionally.

One more thing; The tack we took to get the ball rolling on the 1911's was first allowing HK USP's to be carried in condition 1. Once that settled in in was a fairly simple sell for the 1911's
Old 08-17-2002, 09:03 AM   #5
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 23
kind of off topic

Did anyone catch 48hrs last night, the Texas rangers were carrying 1911's
They looked pretty sweet I must say 8) Just wondered if anyone else saw those.
Old 03-13-2003, 05:58 AM   #6
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 33
This is not an answer to your question but I'm wondering if you could provide a little info relevant to the topic. How much more training time on average would you say is required for the single action compared to the DAO and have you seen an increase in AD's.
Old 06-11-2011, 10:42 AM   #7
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 29
I can't imagine anyone wanting to carry a 1911 when there are so many better high capacity DAO autos of great quality on the market. You will be quicker and much safer with one of them and most likely more accurate. I guess the cool factor is the reason.
Old 06-11-2011, 01:50 PM   #8
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 489
Spade, I'm not in law enforcement so my take is based on carry and use of handguns over a long period of years for personal protection and action-based competition.

For example, the little shooting group I'm part of these days get together for what might be called "timed, scored practical shooting practice and training". There's about a dozen of us who are regulars, showing up 30 or more Sundays a year. All of us have twenty years or more of trigger time under our belts.We do mostly short range, from-the-holster handgunning. We shoot on the move much of the time, use moving targets sometimes, and throw in surprises downrange by having the shooter start with his back to an unknown array.

While all of us own and use revolvers as well as other semi-autos, NONE of us do our very best shooting with anything other than single action semis such as a 1911 or Browning Hi Power. (The Glocks, Springfield XDs and Smith &Wesson M&Ps come close with some of us, to be fair.)

It's tough to beat that "light", crisp single action trigger, it really is.
Old 06-13-2011, 07:35 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Spade Cooley View Post
I can't imagine anyone wanting to carry a 1911 when there are so many better high capacity DAO autos of great quality on the market. You will be quicker and much safer with one of them and most likely more accurate. I guess the cool factor is the reason.
Ok brother. I'm going to go easy on you the obvious reasons.

I have been doing this job since 1975. The 1911 has been my choice for both on and off duty since day one. In my opinion and in my hands there is no better, no more accurate, no more safer fighting firearm. Anything other than than a 1911 mandated by a dept. is done to avoid liability concerns stemming from the limits of individual officers and their capabilities. We "old school" cops go to war with our weapons. Not like todays recruits who treat them like another gadget on the belt mandated by the dept. but never to be used except to qualify. Do I need 40 rounds on my belt? No sir! 21 will do fine thank you. I never needed more than 3 to get the job done anyway.
I can customize my 1911s to fit desires and my hands. Mine are done by the AMU/MTU. They are best life saving tool money can buy. Is your factory Glock?
You be safe.
Old 06-13-2011, 07:06 PM   #10
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 29
I fail to see why the 1911 is a sacred cow. Most of the military versions I've shot are not very accurate. Ive tried fixing up a couple of them and currently own one. I'm sure some shooters are very good with it but I could hit more with a Colt single action peacemaker in 45 Long Colt than I could with a 1911. But anyone who bad mouths it is most likely to be flamed. I do like the modern DAO versions because of their safety features. How do you carry a 1911 and be safe?

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