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Old 04-12-2004, 11:46 AM   #1
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 86
260vs6.5

I don't know if this is the correct forum or not but here goes. What would be the ballistic differences be between the .260 and a current production 6.5/55, like in a ruger;rem,or winchester. I used to have a mauser96 but heard it wasn't as strong as the ones made now. Can a person run swede loads warmer than the 96 lloads are for? I realize every rifle is a law unto itself,But i might sporterize a 96 if there isnt any difference. Thank You. :wink:
 
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Old 04-12-2004, 05:07 PM   #2
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 155
The 6.5x55 is a 100 year old cartridge with a max pressure in the older rifles of 46,000 CUP, suffice to say this a very low pressure round.

The 260 Remington is a factory release of the 6.5x308 wildcat and dates back to the mid 60's. THe 308 is a high pressure round, and so is the 260 Remington, its a little new so I don't have exact CUP data on it but the 243 is 60,000 CUP, the 7mm-08 is 61000 CUP and the 308 is 62000 CUP, so it falls right in there in the 60K + CUP.

Back to your question of differences in the two cartridges in a modern rifle. Here I will display some bias, but this is justified at least in my mind. The best way to state it is " what does the 260 Remington do that the old Swede doesn't ? From a purely ballistic point of view I can equal the ballistics of the 260 Remington across the board in all bullet wieghts, and with heavy long bullets the 6.5x55 has a advantage as the bullets don't need to be set back in the case so far to keep the C.O.A.L. short. This the Swede does with almost 15K CUP less pressure. And thats where my bias clicks in, I prefer low pressure rounds, less wear and tear on hardware, less tempermental on climatic changes with the ammo. If I am sacrificing something for that low pressure that is a different story, but in this case you actually gain in flexibility.

Now I am MOST emphatically not suggesting you can load the 6.5x55 up to modern pressures, and any attempt to do so is pure foley, no matter what firearm you are using. The fact remains though that most of the factory fodder for the Swede is pretty tame, and can be improved by reloading. Norma is the exception to this and seems to be the only really modern loadings of the 6.5x55 in factory ammo. Using the Norma or handloaded ammunition there is no reason the old Swede should take a back seat to the new 260.

Now there is a couple areas I will give the 260 kudo's, it is short, hence it fits in very short actions, and makes short handy little rifles. It is also based on the 308 case, which means if somebody decides to rebarrel a FAL/G3 or a AR-18 it is going to work just fine in those platforms.

As far as accuracy is concerned the 260 definately has potential but the Swede has a fine reputation for accuracy, the Swedish government used it for years on their rifle teams and did a lot of developmental work with it. The 1999 British Long Range Benchrest Championship was won with a 6.5x55, the group size was 10 shoots into 4.4 inches at 1000yds. It isn't real hard to find some handloads for the Swede that are doing .3 inch groups at 100 yards. I think it is going to take several years for the 260 Remington to start making serious inroads into the match community and displace the 6.5x55.

As far as rifles go, its a pretty mixed bag. there are some very old mausers that I would definately not be putting HOT ammo in. There were also some new manufacture model 96's that are safe to use the modern ammo in. An example is a CG-63. Generally anything pre WWII is suspect of being weaker due to heat treating methods. If you are in doubt have a gunsmith look over your rifle. In new guns the CZ, and the Tikka T3 are both good quality and I have heard some very impressive tales of the accuracy of the Tikka's in these rifles. Here is a link to some reloading info on both a Sako Finnbear and a custom Hall actioned gun ( top drawer quality ) but the groups speak for themselves.

http://www.accuratereloading.com/65smauser.html

Take care and shoot safe.
 
Old 05-02-2004, 05:16 AM   #3
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 86
I finally made up my mind,thanks to your help and the help of a gunsmith friend of mine. I ordered a HOWA 6.5/55 swede. That way if I need more pwer than the swede offers, I can rechamber it to 6.5-.284. Although the link you sent me,had some respectable ballistics, and should be good enough. talk about accurate! thanks again. :P
 
 
Old 05-02-2004, 10:51 AM   #4
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 155
Let us know how it shoots once you have worked with it a bit.

Congrats
 
Old 09-07-2004, 09:17 PM   #5
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 86
Old topic I know, but just came back from the range tonight, with a good grouch on. I couldnt' get that thing to group at all. Wer'e talking patterns here. Couldnt zero it in. What is the center of a 6 inch trapezoid?

2 differnt stocks
2 different scopes
2 different ring and mount set ups
only two different kinds of factory ammo, But it should have at least made kind of a group of some size1-2-3-4-5-6 inches.
Back to head scratching,I don't think hand loading is even an option at this point. Other than that its a nice rifle. Where theres a dremel tool there is always hope. Maybe I should make that my quote??
 
Old 09-07-2004, 09:18 PM   #6
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 86
Old topic I know, but just came back from the range tonight, with a good grouch on. I couldnt' get that thing to group at all. Wer'e talking patterns here. Couldnt zero it in. What is the center of a 6 inch trapezoid?

2 differnt stocks
2 different scopes
2 different ring and mount set ups
only two different kinds of factory ammo, But it should have at least made kind of a group of some size1-2-3-4-5-6 inches.
Back to head scratching,I don't think hand loading is even an option at this point. Other than that its a nice rifle. Where theres a dremel tool there is always hope. Maybe I should make that my quote??
 
Old 09-07-2004, 09:19 PM   #7
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 86
Old topic I know, but just came back from the range tonight, with a good grouch on. I couldnt' get that thing to group at all. Wer'e talking patterns here. Couldnt zero it in. What is the center of a 6 inch trapezoid?

2 differnt stocks
2 different scopes
2 different ring and mount set ups
only two different kinds of factory ammo, But it should have at least made kind of a group of some size1-2-3-4-5-6 inches.
Back to head scratching,I don't think hand loading is even an option at this point. Other than that its a nice rifle. Where theres a dremel tool there is always hope. Maybe I should make that my quote??
 
Old 09-07-2004, 10:09 PM   #8
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 155
Bruce,

Three posts you don't sound happy. First question is this an out of the box Howa? New? And Under Warranty? You didn't give me a lot of details, but something is wrong and its probably something either way wrong or something real simple. Lets start with the simple, when it was box stock, how bad were the patterns? Did they get worse or better after you changed stocks?

First question what kind of ammo are you shooting? Before working with reloads start with some cheap factory stuff. There is some Yugo or Chezc stuff that is around $8-9 a box. Start with it, maybe not the most high quality ammo out there but its consistant, and cheap to work with and geting 1.5-2 MOA is possible. You can use more expensive but why waste the dollars till you got it shooting right and have broken in the barrel.

Next question are you cleaning the barrel around every 2 shots during the break in? Important, some barrels take a little breaking in to settle down, and a 4-6 inch group is possible until its broke in. I have never been a big fan of Japanese barrels and some of these really need the break in, I guess cause they don't lap. This is a prejudic on my part and I have never heard of a howa shooting as bad as this, so take it with a grain of salt.

Alright next, use a 25 yard sight in target, that is compensated for the 100 yards. If your having that much trouble you don't need to be at 100 yds yet.

OK, you had your stock off, I wouldn't have jumped there at first but it is done. Is the stock pillar bedded? If it is you need to torque the screws back down I don't know your rifle exactly but around 55 inch pounds of torque should be close, if this isn't done it can be a serious detrement to accuracy. Many new guns that won't shoot and pattern need this as the only fix. Was the stock floated properly, no touch spots on the barrel? What kind of Stock, Wood, Laminate, Synthetic?

I have a whole list of other questions, but to save me a lot of typing I will wait till you have answered some of the above. One last question is do you have any machinists blue? It will be helpful later if you do, not manditory just helpful.

One last question though, tell me about your scopes, New? Used and known good? Clue me in on your ring/mount setup also but unless these were loose it isn't where I suspect problems.
 
Old 09-07-2004, 10:24 PM   #9
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 86
My computer must be acting up. I only meant for one message. sorry.
It is a new Howa 1500 6.5 . the first time I took it out I believe it had the original stock. Accuracy stunk. Ive been arouond rifles for a while so My first thought was scope was bad or mounts loose. It was very erratic. one shot about where I wanted it, the next 9;00 two inches off. The next shot would be high and right. I couldnt get shots even close to each other, It is random. I would think stock pressure would shift groups but that there would at least be a group to shift. Both stocks are synthetic and free floated. I dunno.... Idont know if there is a warranty or not i contacted my dealer about it. I just dont know what else I could try.
 
Old 09-08-2004, 07:00 AM   #10
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 155
Synthetic stock, pillar bedded? Make sure the stocks screws are torqued down like I said before. It is real important that both these screws are tight and the same torque setting.

Again tell me about your scopes. Another question what kind of factory ammo? Did you see any keyholing on the target? I will do some looking today but I want to know what twist rate your rifle has.

The problem could be a sum of several small problems ending up with a sum of terrible.
 
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