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Old 10-14-2004, 05:52 AM   #11
 
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slugs or buckshot

the recent advancement of slug technology has changed this topic somewhat. Perhaps a smaller easier to handle 20 ga. is in your future. Two points to consider, a semi-auto can be shot with only 1 hand a pump needs two, a semi-auto can be rested on something to shot a pumb must be removed each time to cycle the gun.
 
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Old 01-29-2005, 03:50 PM   #12
 
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Pump guns are more reliable than semi auto's...If your willing to spend the mony,buy a H&K FP6..If you want reliable with a cheaper price tag go with the Winchester 1300 defender..
 
Old 03-08-2010, 05:21 PM   #13
KainThornn
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Remington 870 Express Police model
 
 
Old 03-09-2010, 08:42 AM   #14
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A 12 gauge pump shotgun of your liking and budget with a short barrel.

12 gauge because it packs a sufficient punch, especially with 00 shot.

Pump because it most reliable and if you dont keep a shell in the chamber, which you shouldn't, when you rack the slide, if that doesn't deter the BG you know you'll be shooting.

and I prefer Mossburg 500 because its the widest used model by law enforcement and a dang good gun for the money. Remember if it's only for home defense, pretty isn't on the list (though it shouldn't be anyway) not that Mossberg isn't a good looking gun.
 
Old 03-09-2010, 05:37 PM   #15
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Mossburg 500 because its the widest used model by law enforcement

Ahhh, NO.
The most widely used law enforcement shotgun by far is the Remington 870P Police model.
Something like 95% or more of all American LE use the 870P.
Remington just flat OWNS the Police shotgun market, but other makers are starting to get some sales to LE.
Mossberg is starting to get some department sales with their 590-A1 Military and Police model, but its uphill against the 870P.
VERY few LE agencies use the Mossberg 500.

Last edited by dfariswheel; 03-09-2010 at 05:42 PM.
 
Old 03-10-2010, 03:59 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfariswheel View Post
Mossburg 500 because its the widest used model by law enforcement

Ahhh, NO.
The most widely used law enforcement shotgun by far is the Remington 870P Police model.
Something like 95% or more of all American LE use the 870P.
Remington just flat OWNS the Police shotgun market, but other makers are starting to get some sales to LE.
Mossberg is starting to get some department sales with their 590-A1 Military and Police model, but its uphill against the 870P.
VERY few LE agencies use the Mossberg 500.
Hummmmm, where did you get that information?

I've got to tell you that at twice the price I find it all but impossible to believe 95% of LE agencies use Remington 870P's and I dont think I've ever seen a Remington Shotgun in a police car. So I'll be looking forward to reading your source.

I'm guessing you're a Remington owner/fan.

Last edited by Swamp; 03-10-2010 at 04:31 AM.
 
Old 03-10-2010, 04:52 PM   #17
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Remington very famously "owns" the police shotgun market and has since at least about 1964 when Winchester discontinued the Model 12 and replaced it with the Model 1200 which was a disaster in police use.

While every other shotgun make went with new designs that used aluminum receivers and stamped and plastic internals, Remington designed the steel frame 870 with heavy-duty fabricated internals and no plastics.
Whatever opinions might be, the 870 has simply proved to hold up better in actual police use.

Over the last 50 years Remington gained a reputation for the 870 standing up to the abuse that police give shotguns, and after trying cheaper guns, most stuck with Remington.

Yes, the 870 does cost more than any other pump gun, but it also lasts a lot longer with much less trouble in actual service.
I once knew an armorer for a major police agency who used to joke that his 870 spare parts fit into a shoe box with enough room left over for "a burger and fries".
He said that most of his 870 repairs were replacing bent barrels, knocked off sights, splintered stocks, and removing rust.
Much of this damage was from what he called the Night Watch police version of "Hold my beer and watch this.

As for "proof" of the dominance of the 870 in law enforcement use, somewhere on the 'net is a state by state listing of what shotguns local and Federal LE units are using.
The 870 is used by all but a tiny few.

I'm sure you'll see departments using other guns, but this isn't the case most places. Look into a police, sheriff, state police, or federal car and it'll be an 870 virtually all the time.

By no means does this mean the Mossberg is no good, it is, or at least the military and police "hardened" 590-A1 version is and Mossberg is starting to get some police sales.
But, LE is conservative and they tend to stick with something that's well proven. No other modern shotgun is as well proven to stand up as the 870P, and since there's no good reason to change, they stick with it.

In my immediate area we have 10 police departments, 7 Sheriff's departments, 2 college police departments, 3 state police departments, and the usual Federal LE agencies, (Most of who have no need or business carrying guns) and ALL of them use the Remington 870P.
The local FBI SWAT team has access to Benelli (I think) semi-auto shotguns, but for day to day they have 870P's in the car trunks.

Don't take my word for it, ask around for what LE uses in other areas. There's been several polls on other gun forums. Do one yourself and see what the results are.
 
Old 03-10-2010, 05:15 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfariswheel View Post
Remington very famously "owns" the police shotgun market and has since at least about 1964 when Winchester discontinued the Model 12 and replaced it with the Model 1200 which was a disaster in police use.

While every other shotgun make went with new designs that used aluminum receivers and stamped and plastic internals, Remington designed the steel frame 870 with heavy-duty fabricated internals and no plastics.
Whatever opinions might be, the 870 has simply proved to hold up better in actual police use.

Over the last 50 years Remington gained a reputation for the 870 standing up to the abuse that police give shotguns, and after trying cheaper guns, most stuck with Remington.

Yes, the 870 does cost more than any other pump gun, but it also lasts a lot longer with much less trouble in actual service.
I once knew an armorer for a major police agency who used to joke that his 870 spare parts fit into a shoe box with enough room left over for "a burger and fries".
He said that most of his 870 repairs were replacing bent barrels, knocked off sights, splintered stocks, and removing rust.
Much of this damage was from what he called the Night Watch police version of "Hold my beer and watch this.

As for "proof" of the dominance of the 870 in law enforcement use, somewhere on the 'net is a state by state listing of what shotguns local and Federal LE units are using.
The 870 is used by all but a tiny few.

I'm sure you'll see departments using other guns, but this isn't the case most places. Look into a police, sheriff, state police, or federal car and it'll be an 870 virtually all the time.

By no means does this mean the Mossberg is no good, it is, or at least the military and police "hardened" 590-A1 version is and Mossberg is starting to get some police sales.
But, LE is conservative and they tend to stick with something that's well proven. No other modern shotgun is as well proven to stand up as the 870P, and since there's no good reason to change, they stick with it.

In my immediate area we have 10 police departments, 7 Sheriff's departments, 2 college police departments, 3 state police departments, and the usual Federal LE agencies, (Most of who have no need or business carrying guns) and ALL of them use the Remington 870P.
The local FBI SWAT team has access to Benelli (I think) semi-auto shotguns, but for day to day they have 870P's in the car trunks.

Don't take my word for it, ask around for what LE uses in other areas. There's been several polls on other gun forums. Do one yourself and see what the results are.
But you still didn't answer my question; where do you get the statistics that 95% of law enforcement uses Remington shotguns? You can tell me stories all you want but I simply think they are just that, stories. I mean do you really go out and inventory police departments to see what kind of shotguns they use?; do you do this nationwide? That's a pretty bold statement; I just want to see it because I cant for the life of me believe it.

When I see police widely use Glocks, which are cheaper (inexpensive) guns verses a 1,000.00 Kimber or something like that yet they go top shelf for shotguns?
 
Old 03-10-2010, 05:32 PM   #19
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Remington Model 870™ Express® Tactical- $505 MSRP
Mossberg 500® PUMP-ACTION - TACTICAL TURKEY™ SERIES- $543 MSRP

The 500 is a more of a hunting shotgun with a short barrel, the 590 is more what LE would use

Source: manufacturer's respective websites.


Pump Action Shotgun - Model 870 Express Tactical - Remington Shotguns
O.F. Mossberg & Sons, Inc. - Firearms, Shotguns, Rifles, Accessories, and Precision Machining

Granted the MSRP is always higher than what is actualy paid, Mossberg has more higher prices for their 12 guage pump shotguns than Remington. LE doesn't use Glocks strictly because they're less expensive. They can run a larger caliber with hi capacity than Beretta ever will, and unless they go with Para Ordnance we won't be seeing standard 1911's on duty either. But then again PA are rather steep too
 
Old 03-10-2010, 05:57 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KainThornn View Post
Remington Model 870™ Express® Tactical- $505 MSRP
Mossberg 500® PUMP-ACTION - TACTICAL TURKEY™ SERIES- $543 MSRP

The 500 is a more of a hunting shotgun with a short barrel, the 590 is more what LE would use

Source: manufacturer's respective websites.


Pump Action Shotgun - Model 870 Express Tactical - Remington Shotguns
O.F. Mossberg & Sons, Inc. - Firearms, Shotguns, Rifles, Accessories, and Precision Machining

Granted the MSRP is always higher than what is actualy paid, Mossberg has more higher prices for their 12 guage pump shotguns than Remington. LE doesn't use Glocks strictly because they're less expensive. They can run a larger caliber with hi capacity than Beretta ever will, and unless they go with Para Ordnance we won't be seeing standard 1911's on duty either. But then again PA are rather steep too
This is so funny. I've never seen so many experts on LE guns in one forum in my life and ya all need to correct the rest of the world that you are assured is wrong.

Lets start with your perverted price information. Clearly you listed the most expensive Mossber Model 500 you could find (rather than the one police would use) and how convenient it is titled Tactical Turkey to help support your false argument, verses the cheapest Remington you could find which doesn't match the one posted as the model used by 95% of LE agencies.

Now lets address 1911 carried by LE: start with my post...
http://pistolsmith.com/kimber-pistol...bers-only.html

Then go to the Kimber site and notice: Kimber > 1911 Pistols > SIS Kimbers SIS model and study a little about how that model came about just for a couple of blow your story to bits information.

Guys, Mossburg is used by a lot of LE agencies. I made my recommendation to the thread author as my opinion based on my experience and knowledge; it's just a gun for cry-n-out-loud. You wont lose your manhood if police use Mossburg shotguns. And information is jsut a click away, perverting information to skew an argument will get busted in a heart beat.
 
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