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Old 03-17-2004, 03:33 PM   #1
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 14
STI Trojan 5.0 questions/help (need an expert)

I posted this on the 1911forum and received no response - please help if you can.

I just picked up my new Trojan 5.0 in .45 (ordered from Dawson Precision) on Thursday. Fired it today for the first time. I put 100 rounds of Winchester 230 gr. white box FMJ and 15 rounds of Winchester personal protection (JHPs) through it with no jams or feeding issues. I have the usual mag catch and difficulty seating mags issue discussed in several other threads on this board. In addition, I have the following issues that may or may not be a problem:

1. I noticed that when I was shooting the gun, the muzzle flash was considerable and flakes of unburnt powder were thrown back at my face and left on the shooting bench. Another shooter close by who build his own 1911s said that he thought I might need a heavier recoil spring to keep the slide in battery longer. The slide does seem to move a bit slow and brass is thrown about 12 feet in the 4 o'clock direction. There didn't feel to be any frame battering, but with my thumb riding the safety it feels like the slide is in slow motion - I am not squeezing the slide with my thumb and slowing it down, just feeling it lightly. Anyone have this happen before or have any comments?

2. This gun seems to lock up on the barrel hood. This may be fine because it didn't seem to make lock up an less "tight," or affect reliability, but I can shove a straightened out medium sized paper clip through the opening above the extractor between the barrel and slide all the way through to the other side inside the chamber. I can also see the head of the brass when I have a round in the chamber. Is this normal? Extraction if fine, but it is strange to me to see that much of the cartridge casehead when one is in the pipe. Could this cause some problems with lack of support.

3. When I inspect my cases, there is a sooty deposit near the mouth of the case for only about 1/8 of the case diameter. It looks like I might be getting some gas blowback because of lack of chamber concentricity. Could this be a lack of case support in one area - maybe too vigorous a throat polishing job. It is not belling the case mouth or anything though.

Thanks in advance.
 
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Old 03-18-2004, 01:17 PM   #2
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 645
Re: STI Trojan 5.0 questions/help (need an expert)

I have a 9mm Trojan and a .40 Trojan. I'll throw out my two cents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockbuster
I posted this on the 1911forum and received no response - please help if you can.

1. I noticed that when I was shooting the gun, the muzzle flash was considerable and flakes of unburnt powder were thrown back at my face and left on the shooting bench.
That sounds like an ammo issue to me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockbuster
I posted this on the 1911forum and received no response - please help if you can.Another shooter close by who build his own 1911s said that he thought I might need a heavier recoil spring to keep the slide in battery longer. The slide does seem to move a bit slow and brass is thrown about 12 feet in the 4 o'clock direction. .
A heavier recoil spring might keep it in battery a shade longer, but the hammer spring has a more direct affect on unlock timing. If the slide moves slowly, that would imply too much recoil spring?

In the case of my 9mm Trojan, it also moved kind of sluggishly when new and sometimes short cycled. It was because the slide fit is so tight on them. After break in, mine was perfect. I called them and they suggested I could go to a lower weight recoil spring (say two pounds below standard) while it was tight. I didn't and it just broke in by itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockbuster
I posted this on the 1911forum and received no response - please help if you can.2. This gun seems to lock up on the barrel hood. This may be fine because it didn't seem to make lock up an less "tight," or affect reliability, but I can shove a straightened out medium sized paper clip through the opening above the extractor between the barrel and slide all the way through to the other side inside the chamber. I can also see the head of the brass when I have a round in the chamber. Is this normal?
I'm not sure. The 1911 is supposed to fit (in lockup) with the lower barrel lugs resting on the slide stop pin and the top of the barrel lugs just touching the slide in the cuts made for them. That is the "three point" support that marks a perfect fit. I am not completely sure how close to the top of the slide the barrel hood have to be, or if that is a critical dimension.

I can tell you this: look at your fired brass and see if the FP strike point is centered on the primer. If it is, you have perfect vertical alignment between the slide and barrel. If it locks up tight and cycles in and out of lockup smoothly, that's a perfect fit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockbuster
I posted this on the 1911forum and received no response - please help if you can. Extraction if fine, but it is strange to me to see that much of the cartridge casehead when one is in the pipe. Could this cause some problems with lack of support. .
To my knowledge, I have not heard of any specific problems with the .45 cartridge lacking support (just the .40). But, it has to be unsupported like 0.1" or more ahead of the cartridge groove before it becomes relevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockbuster
I posted this on the 1911forum and received no response - please help if you can.3. When I inspect my cases, there is a sooty deposit near the mouth of the case for only about 1/8 of the case diameter. It looks like I might be getting some gas blowback because of lack of chamber concentricity. Could this be a lack of case support in one area - maybe too vigorous a throat polishing job. It is not belling the case mouth or anything though.

Thanks in advance.
It's possible. I have never seen anything like that, so I am no expert. I can tell you I get sooty residue on crummy ammo because it doesn't expand the brass well enough to get a seal. If yours is good ammo and doing it at the same location everytime, there could be an anomoly there.

I can tell you this for sure. If you call STI, they will fix anything wrong with it. They will also talk as long as you need questions answered.

512-819-0656
 
Old 03-18-2004, 08:04 PM   #3
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 20
Call Dawson. He'll set it right.
 
 
Old 04-24-2004, 07:46 AM   #4
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 14
Update.

Well guys. This problem was not really a problem at all.

Since I bought my Dillon 550 and started using bullseye powder, I have had none of the unburnt powder problem I was having with the Win white box. I will not be shooting Win white box again. The sooty deposits also went away. Lockup is as tight as ever and the gun has run flawlessly. The mag issue is still out there though. My trojan shoots so good that I am considering picking up another. Now, if they only made a compact 10 mm Trojan. :wink:

Don't think I will ever buy another Kimber again. No bash, I have a tactical custom that is a tackdriver, but the STI has it all over Kimber in attention to detail, finish, and shoots just as accurately.
 
Old 04-20-2005, 09:14 PM   #5
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 14
Wow, a year later and this post is still on the front page... so I thought I would post an update. The Trojan still runs great. The flecks of powder was just because the gun was tight and must have been messing with the ejection or something. VV N310 is a dream to shoot with 200 LSWCs and this thing feeds everything I have thrown at it since I passed break in. I am about to send it to Tripp to have the STIppling removed and have conventional checkering done, serrate the flat top, then have the the slide polished blue and hard chrome the frame. How do you think it will look?

The night sights went dim, so STI replaced them with new Heine's under warranty even after I told them I bought it used. The front sight is ever so slightly off center, but it just requied the back sight to be drifted ever so slightly in the same direction. Still nice service.

For the money, this is the best 1911 under $1000. I paid $850 for the gun used, but unfired. I saw a Trojan at a gun show table in .40 for $750 out the door. I didn't have the cash or I would have owned it. It worked out b/c I picked up the Valtro a guy was selling at www.thehighroad.org six or so months ago. Very happy with both guns and am looking to pick up an STI Executive if I can find one lightly used. Thumbs up STI. :lol: :lol: Don't hesitate to buy one.
 
Old 06-20-2005, 01:45 PM   #6
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 6
Rockbuster,

I just bought a Trojan 45. It was interesting to read your post as I am having the exact same issues. I believe this initial problem is due to tightness and the slide rib banging into the disconnector. It seems to hang there slightly. I will shoot it in and I sure everything will work out. I would love to hear how your Tripp upgrades turn out...I want to send mine in for hard chrome.

Also I replaced the mag catch with and Ed Brown extended and don't have any issues using other mags now.
 
Old 07-06-2005, 08:42 PM   #7
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 14
sdlocal, sorry to take so long in replying - I hadn't seen your post until just now. Tripp upgrades are on hold for now as I went hog wild buying HK P7s. In my opinion, they are the next best thing to a 1911 and whole lot easier to carry in Texas. But, I had to buy now as they are discontinued and will only be more expensive later.

Back to the Trojan - it is the best value in a 1911 out there. After break-in, mine runs like a top, even with my semi-wadcutter ammo. A couple of recommendations:
1. It only took me about 300 to rounds for the powder issue to resolve itself. I thought it might have been attributable to shooting Win White Box, and I switched to reloads at about 300 rounds. It was likely just hitting the break-in window.
2. Something that will make you smile really wide - start using Militec-1 on the slide rails. It feels like the slide and impact points are actually insulated or padded by the film of lubricant. I say lubricant because it is not oil - it is a synthetic. The slide even sounds more solid locking up - and feels as good as my Valtro - ball bearings!
3. Alumagrips really changed the feel of the gun for me. They are metal, so you have that "hard cold steel" feel when you pick up the gun. Also, they are ever so slightly thinner than the full thickness STI grips I had on the gun. It really made the STIppling more tolerable for me. I really like checkering better than the stock treatment. The Trojan would be worth an extra $100-$200 to me if it had conventional checkering.

All that to say I like the gun, but the things I would change are listed in my previous post. It is not a Valtro or a Baer, but it could be brought up to that level by a good smith for about $1000 and still be a bargain.

PS - Oh, one other thing I really like about the Trojan is the thumb stafety. It is the perfect width for the thumb to ride during fire. I have a McCormick tactical on another 1911 and it is just a hair too narrow. I have a Brown Amibi on another gun and it is too wide and digs into the base of my thumb during fre. The STI is the perfect size and angle IMO.

Hope this proves useful to those out there without as STI stocking dealer around. I tried to be as detailed as possible about my likes and dislikes regarding the Trojan. STI has great customer service and I get to support my home state of Texas.
 
Old 07-07-2005, 03:17 PM   #8
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 6
Thanks

Rockbuster,

Thanks for the reply. I bought custom etched alumagrips as well and totally agree with you. I'll giv the Miltec a try!

Thanks again........
 
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