Need help with Beretta 76 showing bulged cases - Pistolsmith
Pistolsmith

Go Back   Pistolsmith > Pistolsmith Forum > Workshop

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-14-2012, 09:42 AM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Orchard Park, New York
Posts: 33
Need help with Beretta 76 showing bulged cases

Hello everyone. New to the forum. Not sure if this is the correct sub-forum....so.....

I have a Beretta model 76, 22LR target pistol. It shows partial-case bulging just ahead of the rim, for about 40-60 degrees of circumference. I've established that the bulge is located just where the feed ramp enters the chamber. Thought that maybe a previous owner went crazy and over-Dremeled this area...leading to no case-support in that region. What I found instead is that all Beretta 22's seem to be built this way....BUT...mine shows case bulging and the others do not. I am 100% certain that there is NO OOB ( out-of-battery) firing....the slide is completely closed.

Kinda long...but here is what I already posted on the Beretta forum, with numbers and pictures--->

Beretta 76 - bulged, extracted cases - Beretta Forum

Question....if stronger springs don't solve this ( concept...delay the opening of the slide, maybe bulging won't occur as much)..... can this be "fixed" with application of silver solder...brazing....or maybe even delicate TIG welding by someone who really knows what they're doing? ...in the 6 o'clock position of the chamber?

New barrels are impossible to find......

Last edited by IPSC; 02-14-2012 at 01:52 PM.
 
Remove Ads
Old 02-14-2012, 02:44 PM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 66
Any attempt to adjust the spring force to delay the action opening is going to drastically affect timing to the point it probably won't cycle. Any metal replacement will ruin the temper/hardness/strength of the barrel. My only solution would be to re-line the barrel. Not difficult, nor really expensive. the parts are available from Brownells. If you want to tackle it yourself, the Brownells staff will give pointers, maybe even a printed how-to. If not, you can probably find a local gunsmith who will do it for a nominal fee. George M.
 
Old 02-14-2012, 02:54 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Orchard Park, New York
Posts: 33
I understand that (say) TIG welding... any welding...melts the host material and therefore can alter the heat-treatment of the host material. However, other approaches such as brazing, as an example, adds material ( doesn't melt the host material), and is of a much lower operating temperature. What about that option?...I mention all options are open for discussion. Just a thought.

As for "local" gunsmiths......those are few and far between nowadays....the people I find locally I would kindly call butchers, blacksmiths, or hackers.....

Last edited by IPSC; 02-14-2012 at 05:02 PM.
 
 
Old 02-14-2012, 08:26 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: near Huntsville, Ala.
Posts: 707
What does Beretta Customer Service say about it?
 
Old 02-15-2012, 04:37 AM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Orchard Park, New York
Posts: 33
The model 76 is long out of print and Beretta is totally at arms length. Look at the Beretta-USA website and you can see they even farmed out the parts business to Brownells and others.

Forget-about-it....a nonstarter.......gun is too old for them to care.
 
Old 02-15-2012, 08:44 AM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 66
Brazing melts BOTH metals. Too hot for the heat treat. Check around for barrrel reline prices. Where do you live? George M.
 
Old 02-15-2012, 08:57 AM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Orchard Park, New York
Posts: 33
Definition of Brazing---->

Link ---> Brazing Definition

Within the link---> " Brazing differs from welding in that brazing does not melt the base metals, therefore brazing temperatures are lower than the melting points of the base metals. For the same reason, brazing is a superior choice in joining dissimilar metals. Brazed joints are strong. A properly-made joint (like a welded joint) will in many cases be as strong or stronger than the based metals being joined..."

....as my profile/by-line says....I live in Orchard Park, just outside of Buffalo, NY.

The problem "area" is about 1/16" wide, lengthwise within the chamber at the entry....running about 40-60 degrees circumference. That's all it would take to offer better case support. A reline would be pretty extreme for such a small "problem" area.

I considered reline...and even talked to famous reliners like this guy who does Broomhandle Mausers (C96)-->

http://www.redmansrifling.com/relining.htm

....his answer?.... a terse, "I don't do Beretta's !!!! " Sheesh, he works on 22 match rilfes and antique/rare Mausers....but makes me feel like a Leper when I say "Beretta". Got a lot of that "attitude" in asking a number of places.....that's why I'm coming here to this gunsmithing group. It's not a question of checking around for prices...it's a question of who will do it..and how. Some liners are "glued"-in. Wouldn't want that.

Last edited by IPSC; 02-15-2012 at 03:23 PM.
 
Old 02-15-2012, 03:45 PM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Orchard Park, New York
Posts: 33
Here are some pics....there are more...





The rounded-bevel at the 6 o'clock position of chamber...where the feed ramp enters... doesn't seem *that* bad. Other Beretta owners have taken photos of their guns and posted....and it looks the same as to how Beretta built the feed-ramp entry to these guns. But their guns don't show bulged cases. I get little/no bulge with SV ammo...only HV ammo. More range tests are being done...next time with the slide locked-in-place, and using subsonic, SV and HV loads.

Last edited by IPSC; 02-15-2012 at 03:50 PM.
 
Old 02-17-2012, 01:35 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: near Huntsville, Ala.
Posts: 707
Read your other thread over at Beretta Forum, including your concerns about danger from a casehead blowout. If it was my gun, I would just shoot it as is. I don't think a casehead blowout is likely and even if it did happen, I would not expect any other rounds to be detonated. Haven't heard of that even in hot rodded .38 Super blowouts.

While seeming unlikely in .22LR due to much less pressure and gas volume, a casehead blowout might shatter the grips. If you want an extra margin of safety, you could mount thin steel plates under them. Might have to recess the inside of the grips.

You mentioned some misfires. Is this just ammo, or were the strikes light?

Have you ever checked the headspace with gauges?
 
Old 02-17-2012, 04:32 AM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Orchard Park, New York
Posts: 33
The occasional "light-primer strike" misfires are totally cured with the use of the stronger mainspring from Jack First gunshop ( of the various springs I mention in the Beretta Forum thread). I am using the strongest pair of springs I have ( Jack First mainspring, and my original recoil spring).

The theory at that time was that even if the case was unsupported....MAYBE the case was being extracted too soon with weak springs...which would exaggerate the bulging problem by being extracted when pressures are too high. The stronger springs fixed the occasional light-strike problem....fixed the occasional "straight-back-into-face" extraction issues....but did nothing about the bulged cases.

The gun now is extremely accurate and extremely reliable with all manner of ammo...new and old.

Just came back from a range test yesterday....shot subsonic (Remington), standard velocity (CCI) and high velocity rounds (CCI Mini-Mags). In some cases even held the slide closed with a wooden board....but truth be told,even with a "slight" recoil, the board could have jumped off the back of the slide allowing partial opening for a fraction of a second. I can't really be sure the slide was 100% closed during the entire firing cycle. In any event....here are the results--->

subsonic...no bulges
standard velocity.... slight bulging....
high velocity.... same bulging as the pics...as before. Max of these 3 styles of rounds.

I didn't check headspace....but the front-face of the slide, with the inverted "U" shape recess for the cartridge rim...looks "as new" and not worn . I will measure the recess depression amount,and assume this to generally be the headspace, as the flat portion of the slide (not recessed) comes into touching contact with the breech face of the barrel (where the feed ramp enters the chamber).

Lastly....I think there is this common misconception that 22LR rounds....because they are "weaker" then centerfire rounds...somehow operate under lower pressure. I don't think that is the case. The 22 rimfire pressures are 20,000-26,000 psi...if I recall correctly.

Last edited by IPSC; 02-17-2012 at 04:37 AM.
 
Reply

  Pistolsmith > Pistolsmith Forum > Workshop


Search tags for this page

beretta 76

,
beretta 76 accuracy
,
beretta 76 grips
,

beretta 76 review

,
beretta 76 target
,

beretta model 76

,
beretta model 76 22 reviews
,
beretta model 76 review
,
beretta model 76 target
Click on a term to search for related topics.

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bulletmaking from .22LR Cases retDAC Reloading 0 08-14-2011 10:04 AM
ASP Custom Pistol Cases cwbp225 Pistolsmiths 0 03-18-2006 12:58 PM
Dented Cases Joe Postal Kahr Pistols 1 03-18-2004 12:08 PM
need to lube cases vader17 Reloading 6 04-15-2002 08:19 AM

Top Gun Sites Top Sites List


Powered by vBulletin 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © 1999-2012 Pistolsmith. All rights reserved.