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Old 12-29-2012, 09:05 PM   #11
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I speak from personal observation. Springfields are made in Brazil. Rock island is made in the Philippines. They're not made in/on the same anything. I'm not saying that a rock island frame is as good as a Wilson, les baer, or any of the other high-dollar makers that people swoon over. I'm just saying that it's not a fragile piece of crap that'll break in half on the first shot with the super. Will it last 100,000 rounds? Not likely. If I put more that 50 rounds a month through it, I will have seriously increased my usual shooting time. I just want the thing as a knockaround gun for hogs.

Where all the old-timers at? I thought they'd be all over this.

Last edited by judge sam; 12-29-2012 at 09:12 PM.
 
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Old 12-30-2012, 12:58 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by judge sam View Post
Where all the old-timers at? I thought they'd be all over this.
If they saw that people were steering you incorrectly, they would jump in.

You talk about brand zealots, but you do not consider other brands than RIA.

You wanted info about the .45 Super, you got it. But you also got suggestions. Do what you want, but I would really consider what has been said on frame strength.
 
Old 12-30-2012, 04:38 AM   #13
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Quote:
Where all the old-timers at? I thought they'd be all over this.
Give us time. Most of us don't drop in very often.

I have a few thoughts about these hot-rod conversions...and most of them meet with resistance ranging from "I agree to disagree" all the way to outright hostility.

Gotta get the dogs out, but I'll be back to explain.

Last edited by JohnnyT; 12-30-2012 at 05:24 AM.
 
 
Old 12-30-2012, 05:42 AM   #14
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Let's get started.

First...slide delay is accomplished by slide and barrel mass...recoil and mainspring...firing pin stop radius...and bullet drag on the barrel. The springs provide the least effect. Using a small radius on the firing pin stop adds a tiny bit of extra resistance. Mass is next. The bullet's forward drag on the barrel is the big one. It places the barel and slide lugs under a shearing force in opposition. This is what stretches revolver frames and creates endshake.

Second...Pressure isn't the only concern, and it's not even the main concern. The barrel and breech are amply strong enough to contain 50,000 psi...once or twice. Recoil forces and the lugs under high shearing forces...and the slide under tensile stress...is the killer.

Third...The barrel engages vertically, but it locks horizontally under the forces and stresses described above.

The 1911 pistol has radial lugs that engage between 10 and 2, which doesn't provide a lot of surface area to resist and contain those stresses. Additionally...unless all three lugs are equalized and bear the brunt of those forces...the surface area is further reduced. Few factory installed drop-in barrels are equalized. More a matter of luck than anything else. Conversion barrels are no different in that regard.

Additionally, because of the barrel's tilt...if the first and strongest lug is engaging at 100% of its depth, #2 is maybe at 90% and #3 maybe 80%...maybe...reducing surface area of horizontal engagement even further.

In short, the 1911 pistol wasn't designed to operate under the stresses imposed on it by the hot-rod cartridges...particularly the ones that allow the use of bullets from 200 grains up.

If you decide to proceed with this project, I strongly advise you to have a barrel precisely fitted with equalized lugs, or restrict the use of such ammunition to a "need only" basis after load development and test-firing.

I'd also advise you to measure the headspace on the barrel, and be wary of any figure over .910 inch. A simple GO/NO-GO check isn't enough.

Good luck.
 
Old 12-30-2012, 10:12 AM   #15
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Thanks johnnyT. Do you think the 10mm would be a better way to go then, or should I just go with a different platform? Possibly the witness 10mm or Taurus PT1911 in 38 super. Penetration is really more important than big bullets on those big hogs. I just thought that a big bullet with good penetration would be better. Magnum revolvers just won't give me as quick a follow up shot. The bore is just too high.

" You talk about brand zealots, but you do not consider other brands than RIA"
I consider other brands, dan. I'm just not considering putting $1500 in something that I'm only going to stick under the seat. I don't know why that has to be an issue.
 
Old 12-30-2012, 10:38 AM   #16
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Magnum revolvers just won't give me as quick a follow up shot. The bore is just too high.

.
Tell that to Jerry Miculeck.
 
Old 12-30-2012, 11:04 AM   #17
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Sam, the .45 Super conversion can be used on a limited basis without a problem. Hog hunting doesn't require the expenditure of large volumes of ammunition. It's when the hot rodders try to burn through 500 rounds a month that they get into trouble.

For dangerous game, I much prefer bullet mass and momentum to velocity and energy. Mass and momentum are the factors in penetration and breaking heavy bone.

If you elect to go with a revolver, there's no need for top-end magnum calibers. A .45 Colt and 260-270 grain bullets at 950-1,000 fps will do what needs to be done from 50 yards in until you plan on going toe-to-toe with the really big Russian porkers. When I took to the woods to do battle with Mr. Piggy...I used a 4.62-inch Blackhawk .41 Magnum. The ammunition was a cast 220-grain SWC with the chronograph insisting that the velocity was in the 1200-1250 fps range. Not powderpuff, but not exactly top-end stuff, either. I tagged a big one...around 350 pounds...in a full charge at 19 paces from where I stood to where he fell. The bullet struck him on a shoulder, went clean through him lengthwise and anchored him in less than two steps.
 
Old 12-30-2012, 11:57 AM   #18
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I used to to have the 6 1/2" .41 mag. That was my baby. I don't think I'll ever find a deal like I did on that one. New condition with 2 boxes of 240grain Winchester platinum hollow point. $300 tax and all. If you watch that pig bomb special on discovery channel, you'll see some footage and interviews from abbeville, Georgia. I'm right in that area. They're swarming like cockroaches down here, and they get big. I just saw an article in the local outdoors magazine about an 800 pounder that was killed one county over from me. You see, we had some economic problems a while back. A lot of farmers turned their pigs loose because they couldn't afford to feed them. They went wild and started breeding with Russian boars. It makes for one big nasty S.O.B. Abbeville has problems with them coming out into town and attacking people.
 
Old 12-30-2012, 12:44 PM   #19
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Johnny, is it possible to have 100% engagement of all the lugs? If so, what has to happen. Does it simply require a barrel with oversized lugs?
 
Old 12-30-2012, 05:25 PM   #20
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Quote:
Johnny, is it possible to have 100% engagement of all the lugs? If so, what has to happen. Does it simply require a barrel with oversized lugs?
Only on the first one. It's because of the barrel tilt at the rear, and there's only so tall the upper lugs can be because the barrel has to drop far enough to let the slide get past it.

On the 10mm question, the same issues with the lugs and the recoil forces apply.

A quick story that was related to me a few years back:

A guy who bought a 5-inch Ed Brown was having a few problems. He called and got Ed on the horn. The question of ammunition came up.

The conversation went like this:

"How much do you shoot?"

"About 500 rounds a month on average."

"What about the ammunition?"

"Handloaded 200-grain Hornady XTP at around 950-960 fps."

"Whoa, man! You're gonna break my gun!"
 
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